|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 12, 2018 6:06:32 GMT -5
The speculation is that the Democrats are going to take everything in November.
Fine.
I've got mine. I've got my pension, my private annuity, my tiny social security check from the few years that I worked private that barely qualify for SS at all.
But the rest of you are going to have to deal with the loss of what might have been. The tax cuts will go away, the bonuses and the wage hikes will be rescinded, you won't be seeing them as the Democrats raise taxes and ruin the opportunity that industry would otherwise have had to come back here and make things, instead of making them in Mexico, Canada, China, S. Korea, India, etc.
But I've got mine... I won't be affected other than paying the tax hikes.
Americans could have prospered. Americans could maybe cease setting records for the number of young adults still living at home in their late 20's.
We can go back to having riots about "Black Lives Matter" when the actual statisitics show that the cops don't really shoot blacks at any higher rate than they shoot whites. We can go back to all the crap we've seen for the previous administration's 8 years.
But I've got mine.
If the American people screw this up by hiring a bunch of Democrats, and nuke their own prosperity, they will deserve every homeless addition that occurs. Just ask California, the Democrat bastion of the whole country with the absolute highest poverty rate that the country has. That's what happens when you concentrate on "helping the poor" instead of abolishing the poor, by making them not-poor. But identity-politics Democrats must have more and more and more poor people so that they can give them handouts and thus maybe win their votes, which the poor are bone-headed enough to vote for because they think this situation is permanent and that they can never have a job again. Sure, some of 'em don't want a job, but most do - a few years ago, locally, Walmart had something like 800 job openings and got 25,000 applications for them. That's 25,000 people that wanted to work for famously low wages. So, its not like people are holding out for $35 / hr auto company jobs, they just want to make their own ways and be a productive part of society.
But I've got mine. Y'all go ahead and f-up the USA for all time by hiring a bunch of Democrats, and you will deserve what you get.
F. U.
That is all.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 12, 2018 6:34:36 GMT -5
Typical bullshit from you. You got yours, everyone else can suck it. Though you only got yours because of everyone else, you ungrateful shit.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 12, 2018 9:28:49 GMT -5
Yep. If the American people want to F themselves, there isnt a damn thing I can do about it. If you do, y'all should know that, "I've got mine."
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 12, 2018 11:31:14 GMT -5
Typical parasitic entitled right winger. You fuckers are the opposite of Real Americans.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 12, 2018 11:51:09 GMT -5
Typical parasitic entitled right winger. You fuckers are the opposite of Real Americans. You idiot, it's your side that is going to torpedo the economy and the social structure with your policies of poverty and division, don't talk to me with your nonsense. Oh, and I'm the only one here advocating policies that will make things better. Y'all want to subvert the Constitution in many ways, grow the size of government and therefore diminish freedom, which of course diminishes the initiative and risk taking necessary for prosperity. I want to abolish the income taxes, which would be a huge boost to the freedom and prosperity of the American people. So no, I don't say "F everyone else", I say lets empower everyone else by getting rid of the damned governmental stealing called the income taxes. It y'all that are F'ing the American people with your freedom-diminishing policies.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 12, 2018 12:56:52 GMT -5
You clearly hate your fellow Americans, you moocher. What was good enough for you is not allowed for anyone following you. It's called "pulling the ladder up behind you". You greedy parasite.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 12, 2018 12:59:15 GMT -5
Enemy of truth, freedom, and the American way you are.
|
|
DA
mob associate
Hello? Is this thing on?
Posts: 589
|
Post by DA on Apr 17, 2018 17:44:11 GMT -5
A couple of questions.
Why is this in the category "The Bullshit Files"?
What is unAmerican about wanting the citizens to have more money in their paycheck?
How does wanting American's to have more money in their paycheck make one into someone who hates their fellow Americans?
What exactly is a "real American"?
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 17, 2018 18:45:19 GMT -5
Someone else moved it here.
It's nice if we have money. It's nice to fulfill our obligations and invest in our community (Murrica). rally won't permit those last two, he says government, which is us, is evil. Inherently. More government = less freedom. But that's pure bullshit. More government is necessary just because of scale - more citizens = more expense. And he'd like us to not compete internationally (that's the invest in Murrica part), because it costs some adored rich bitch a nickel.
Really brief because gotdamn keypad.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 17, 2018 19:34:42 GMT -5
Someone else moved it here. It's nice if we have money. It's nice to fulfill our obligations and invest in our community (Murrica). rally won't permit those last two, he says government, which is us, is evil. Inherently. More government = less freedom. But that's pure bullshit. More government is necessary just because of scale - more citizens = more expense. And he'd like us to not compete internationally (that's the invest in Murrica part), because it costs some adored rich bitch a nickel. Really brief because gotdamn keypad. All total bullshit... except the fact that the bigger the gov't is, the less freedom citizens have. Its a universal constant like the speed of light. Immutable. Otherwise _I_ am the one trying to bring prosperity to everyone, and be actually overcompetitive if we'd just pass the damned FairTax. We'd blow the rest of the world out of the water with an income-tax-free manufacturing environment that would stampede a lot of the world's manufacturers to build factories here in order to make the biggest profits. We would be the place to make the most money, we'd have the lowest unemployment on the planet, and have wages spiraling up as employers compete for help. America would be insanely wealthy. But not with the gov't tromping thru the front doors of factories and people's homes to steal their money via the income taxes.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 17, 2018 20:01:25 GMT -5
We've tried about all your hallucinatory get rich quick schemes, and yet here we are. And your guys just slashed the government's income. Now tell us how poor people are just in it for the welfare money.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 17, 2018 22:37:20 GMT -5
We've tried about all your hallucinatory get rich quick schemes, and yet here we are. And your guys just slashed the government's income. Now tell us how poor people are just in it for the welfare money. No, we lowered the tax RATE. The gov't's INCOME will go up because of that. It has in every other rate-decrease, and will in this one, too. It's called the Laffer Curve.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 0:35:41 GMT -5
It's a Laffable curve, and only deluded True Believers buy that shit*. We are already waaay ahead of Obama's last year of borrowing, but I'm sure you aren't even looking into it. I hope it hits you right in the COLA.
*When the rate is zero, then the money will REALLY be rolling in!
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 0:44:03 GMT -5
Here, I know you'll ignore this, but Laffer's BS has never borne fruit, ever, and is the get rich quick scheme I alluded to earlier. When tried, it created economic problems and again, HERE WE ARE, despite using these concepts. Repeatedly. I for one vote against insanity, you want to keep trying the same feel-good hype (that hasn't worked) you were sold back in the 80s. newrepublic.com/article/145331/art-laffer-intellectual-rot-republican-party
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 4:02:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 5:16:39 GMT -5
And yet I repeat myself: HERE WE ARE. If Laffer's scam worked, we would not have such a debt and deficit. Why did Reagan have to raise taxes? Because Laffer was full of shit and cutting rates did not increase revenue. Historical fact. PS I knew you wouldn't read it. It's not like only left wing moonbats disagree with him. Actual economists on left and right have shot down his happy horse shit. Even David Fucking Stockman rejected that supply side bullshit. You should learn from the collected empirical data, but it seems your faith is stronger than reality. Smart people would learn from their mistakes, eh. PPS And DA, that's part of why I say it's unAmerican. We KNOW, because we've done it before, that giving tax relief to the rich *harms* our nation in terms of reduced government revenue and growing inequality*. And yet some people keep pushing this demonstrably harmful approach. It will not help America, it will help people who need no help, and it will continue to increase inequality. Which is Bad. *The American dream is not like it used to be. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_United_States
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 10:35:34 GMT -5
"If Laffer's scam worked, we would not have such a debt and deficit."
Are you kidding? The tax cuts just happened a few months ago, they need time to work. Many tax hikes since Reagan are one of the reasons we are where we are. GHWB's "No new taxes" violation was one of the 1st tax hikes. Goes on from there.
"Why did Reagan have to raise taxes?"
Congress spending out that wazoo? I dunno, why do we need a Dept of Education, lotsa other TLAs in DC? Need to get rid of 'em, send the illegals home, all of them, quit giving money to every whiner that never worked for it, etc. The problem is not that we tax too little, its that the gov't spends too much.
And the underlying problem isn't so much taxes, but the method of taxation. Income taxes are stealing, and stealing is always reacted to badly. You work your ass off, and someone comes in and legally takes a lot of your money, you have not so big an incentive to work your ass off after that. That's what happens. That's why we need to abolish income taxes. Get rid of them entirely. Quit stealing from the American people.
As for the diminishment of social mobility, your link says that the primary reason is income inequality. Yeah, no kidding? And why do we have income inequality? Its because the fucking income taxes chased the really good jobs (manufacturing, and as a result mining) the hell out of the country, to other places with less income taxes, esp. corporate income taxes. The only jobs left were mostly retail and service jobs, they all pay crap because they don't CREATE wealth (wealth is something tangible, like a factory creates a card table - the card table is the "wealth") and those jobs that don't create wealth are notoriously low-paid. What we have to do is get the manufacturing back into the USA. The way to do that is to abolish the fucking income taxes. It also created a dearth of jobs overall, there became waaaay more people needing work than there were jobs, so supply and demand said that employers can keep offering less and less money to do the same job, and there will be SOMEBODY desperate enough to take that job, save the employer a ton of money, he gets richer, society in general and that person in particular gets poorer. Again, get rid of the fucking income taxes, and we can get this country back on track.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 11:01:08 GMT -5
See, DA? No desire to actually invest in America from rally. Why should we have, say, a Dept of Education, when the future of our country depends on technological competition with other nations? Everyone just buy the education you think will help you personally, and that will magically put the USA on an excellent strategic footing.
And look at him imagining taxes and taxes alone drive jobs out of USA. Cheap labor has no impact. Proximity to suppliers has no impact. Requirements to protect our environment, so we don't live in a toxic waste dump, have no impact. Only the magic tax rate drives jerbs away. If you are narrow minded and ignorant.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 11:18:19 GMT -5
PS Kansas went whole hog on this rate cut magic nonsense. Go find someone still defending it there. Look it up. They fucked their economy and state, hard. Look. It. Up.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 12:50:12 GMT -5
PS Kansas went whole hog on this rate cut magic nonsense. Go find someone still defending it there. Look it up. They fucked their economy and state, hard. Look. It. Up. Bullshit. I keep hearing this crap, and they LOWERED their corporate tax, not zeroed it. And, when they were done, their new, lower tax rate was STILL higher than a lot of other states, so they didn't stand out amongst all the states, so they didn't get the results they were after. They did a half-measure. They got half-assed results.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 13:00:08 GMT -5
See, DA? No desire to actually invest in America from rally. Why should we have, say, a Dept of Education, when the future of our country depends on technological competition with other nations? Everyone just buy the education you think will help you personally, and that will magically put the USA on an excellent strategic footing. And look at him imagining taxes and taxes alone drive jobs out of USA. Cheap labor has no impact. Proximity to suppliers has no impact. Requirements to protect our environment, so we don't live in a toxic waste dump, have no impact. Only the magic tax rate drives jerbs away. If you are narrow minded and ignorant. 1) The frappin' FEDERAL gov't doesn't have to get involved in what the LOCAL gov't's can do all by themselves. Education K-12 is executed just fine without the Feds getting involved. Higher education has been sabotaged by the Feds handing out $$$$ as student loans, providing what the universities know to be the virtual bottomless pit of Federal $$$$, so they keep raising their tuition to get as much of the available bucks as they can. That ruins the prosperity of their graduates. Best for the Dept. of Education to be abolished as well as the student loan program, and quit funding universities with mega-bucks and force their tuition prices down. We need them in competition for a limited and relatively meager pile of money available from those that are financing their own educations. 2) No, this is MANUFACTURING, which is largely automated now. The contribution of labor to the problem is minute with respect to the contribution of taxes to the problem. Auto workers costing the company about $78 an hour can build a typical car in 30 - 33 hours, for a labor expense of about $2,500, but income tax expense for things built in the country, counting all the taxes that cause the company to pay more such as corporate taxes and individual income taxes of their employees that makes labor cost more plus the damned payroll taxes that cost up the wazoo and so on cost about 22% of the selling price of an American-built product. Guys hauling out $2,500 from a $40K SUV are not much of a factor when the Feds are costing $8,800 or so for that $40K SUV in the form of income taxes. Zeroize the damned income taxes, and probably recover 11%-18% of that selling price that was the income tax expense (they can't recover the employee's personal income tax or the employee's share of the payroll tax) and the price of the SUV will go down by at least $4,400. That'd be WAAAAY more than simply making slaves of the workers, chaining them to the machines, and making them work for free, that'd only recover $2,500.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 13:14:16 GMT -5
Yes yes, the only thing that affects corporate decision making is tax rates. Nothing else matters.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 13:25:50 GMT -5
Yes yes, the only thing that affects corporate decision making is tax rates. Nothing else matters. The way to American domination of world manufacturing goes thru the wicket of nuking ALL the damned income taxes.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 13:43:00 GMT -5
It's a matter of religious faith for you, rally, because the facts are it doesn't do what you believe it will. Where it's been implemented, it's been a huge failure. Yuge, even.
But one day you'll have your heaven, eh? True Believer keeps believing.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 13:46:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 13:47:35 GMT -5
It's a matter of religious faith for you, rally, because the facts are it doesn't do what you believe it will. Where it's been implemented, it's been a huge failure. Yuge, even. Its not failed in Texas. They were creating 1 of every 3 American jobs just a few years ago because of it. Its simply a fact. Income taxes suppress initiative, investment, and labor. As President Kennedy said,""“The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963 " " That was only 50 years into the income taxes. Now it's 105, and the income taxes have ensured that wages have not advanced for about 30 years, poor have gotten poorer and rich richer, because of the income tax. Kill them, and prosper.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 14:14:54 GMT -5
|
|
DA
mob associate
Hello? Is this thing on?
Posts: 589
|
Post by DA on Apr 18, 2018 17:37:44 GMT -5
See, DA? No desire to actually invest in America from rally. Why should we have, say, a Dept of Education, when the future of our country depends on technological competition with other nations? Everyone just buy the education you think will help you personally, and that will magically put the USA on an excellent strategic footing. And look at him imagining taxes and taxes alone drive jobs out of USA. Cheap labor has no impact. Proximity to suppliers has no impact. Requirements to protect our environment, so we don't live in a toxic waste dump, have no impact. Only the magic tax rate drives jerbs away. If you are narrow minded and ignorant. Rally has said he'd like to see, and I paraphrase, "more factories building things in the US" which would "create more wealth and jobs". It sounds like he wants to invest in America to me, but you don't like the ways he wants it done. You keep saying things in regard to what Rally wants that Rally hasn't said. I agree with Rally that there is too much waste in government, and that rather than raising taxes, perhaps it would be better to trim the fat from and stop the ever increasing wasteful spending that goes on daily. Perhaps I'm wrong and Rally has said those things, but to my recollection, he hasn't. If he has then I have missed it due to not being on here that much lately.
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Apr 18, 2018 18:02:37 GMT -5
Alright, this is really long and a pain to review on my phone, so forgive my misspells.
Perhaps I assume he wants the observed results of his suggestions, where his claims of their effectiveness do not match what actually happened. So I can believe he is a True Believer and sincerely thinks these schemes will work, but there is no case where their application had the effect claimed - again, here we are in our current situation. Empirical evidence shows these things don't work, and I wasn'tnkidding about Laffer - it's faith based at this point, and some would have a different word for trying the same thing and expecting different results.
He wants private industry to "invest". That is not more jobs. Factory jobs are not going to come swooping back to this country. This big tax break, companies are using that windfall for stock buybacks. That's not investment. Where they are investing it, they are implementing much more automation, which means there won't be jobs. If you look, we produce A LOT of manufactured goods (like record levels, IIRC), but we're employing fewer people while doing it. That's what happens with modernization and automation. So betting the farm that those jobs return is a bad bet. I mentioned proximity to suppliers. That's a huge advantage for China. It's a matter of geography and sources, and China has set themselves up to succeed. I'm typig on a phone or I might try to dig up articles about it, but China is ery well positioned in a way we are not. In fact, China provides training, where here some people prefer individuals buy their own education and hope they chose well. China's integrated approach is simply way more effective. Education - do I really need to explain why educating our people positions us better for the future? But the current Sec'y of Education has no expertise in education, and many would have us just leave it with no strategic plan. If you fail to plan, you've planned to fail.
There is waste in government, just like there is anywhere (like the vaunted private industry). The issue is sensibly addressing such waste. It certainly is not a reduction of waste for HHS to gut their operating budget, with an unknown impact on real live people and their unmet needs, while spending tens of thousands on fancy furniture. Rank hypocrisy in this administration. But in any case, targeting waste requires identifying waste, but what we get are vague claims. We do not get a scholarly approach to identifying and eliminating waste, we get "Agency X wacked by umpteen %". That affects expenditures, not waste. Also, the single biggest source of federal waste is the untouchable DoD. I've never seen him recommend any changes there, other than throwing money at them.
I believe we can do much better, and with tax rates we have all previously experienced. Unfortunately, I would want rates much like during that flaming socialist, Ike's, admin. But super comfortable people want to be more comfortable - look at how the tax actions impact us all - always easier for the wealthy, and the shifted burden is dumped on the poor and middle class. His "fairntax" crapnwould make that even worse, because rich people don't expend much of their income, where the poor and middle class do - and he wants to tax those expenditures.
PS Should government be starved? Aren't taxes the fee we pay to live in this once great nation? Shouldn't our nation be looking and planning for the future, or should we imagine we can reconstruct the imaginary boom era where everyone has a factory jerb making widgets? Oh, widgets are stamped out by machine now.
|
|
|
Post by rally2xs on Apr 18, 2018 23:20:30 GMT -5
Alright, this is really long and a pain to review on my phone, so forgive my misspells. You did this on a phone? May points for tenacity... You are simply in error of what actually happened, or assume things that weren't true about the initial conditions and then the nature of the stimulus. Such is the case with the Kansas results of their "tax cut." You apparently are listening / reading liberal websites that don't like it when the gov't is shown to be impeding things, and tend to present Kansas as a failed concept for cutting taxes, but again you have to look at what they actually did. They cut 'em, but not nearly enough. It's no surprise to anyone, or shouldn't be, that they didn't reap many rewards. They were left with a 7% corporate income tax. What they needed to do was to make it 0%. THAT would have had some seriously good results. It would have put them in the same arena as Texas with no corporate income taxes. Corporate income taxes are about as dumb and essentially the same as a tariff on your own industries. Its no wonder that they diminish prosperity in the USA. ...am certain that they will work... ...Texas... No, Texas shows that they do work... You're reading liberal websites again. Laffer curve absolutely does work. Revenues were 19% higher at the end of Reagan's presidency than they were at the beginning of it. Yes, it is. They "invest" by building more factories, reopening old factories. As I said in a thread last week I think it was, Republic Steel is reopening a plant in Lorain, Ohio, outside Cleveland, because of the tax cuts and the steel tariffs. That will be 1000 jobs when they get it up and running again. That was from a local Cleveland news outlet. Don't know how many other factories are doing the same thing around the country, but assume there are more. They will to a certain extent because of the recent tax cuts. There would be a stampede if they passed the FairTax. Only hear this from you, and nowhere else. You can always find some liberal website to quote that will warp the stats to show what they want to, but its not something I hear anywhere else - not on Drudgereport, Fox, WMAL, etc. Incorrect. It means that there will be fewer jobs per factory. But if there are many more factories, then there will be many jobs. And lots of auto plants are highly automated, but 1000's of people go tromping in and out of them every day to make cars. Automation isn't the death ray of employment. It's just that there's 1000's of jobs in those plants instead of 10's of 1000's of jobs. If we got the stampede going with the FairTax, there would be 10's or 100's of thousands of factories building things for the entire planet. You can do a lot when the manufacturing environment is income-tax-free. Yep, we're not growing sufficiently in the manufacturing sector. The income taxes are chiefly to blame. With the auto companies forcing contracts with unions about 10 years ago that lowered the starting pay to $15 / hr, a disgracefully low amount for manufacturing, it's really not reality to say the labor rate is much impeding growth of US manufacturing. Its the damned taxes. What happens with modernization and automation is the multiplication of the effective efficiency of every American worker that works with automation. Each person can turn out far more product. That makes the product much cheaper than if he were building it by hand, or with less automation. The more we can incorporate efficiency multipliers via automation, the more we can afford to have manufacturing here rather than in Mexico, Canada, China, etc. We just can't force it with the damned gov't tromping thru the door with a gun and stealing a healthy portion of the proceeds of everyone's labor. They're returning now in moderation. Pass the FairTax and you better get out of the way or be trampled. No, its a huge advantage for us. We have raw materials in plentiful supply, cotton for textiles, food, metals from mines, along with a transportation infrastructure that is the envy of the world. There's no rail transport system that holds a candle to ours in terms of freight. Euros and Orientals have better / faster passenger rail service, but we have the crown jewel of freight rail. Our highway network is immense, we have natural resources up the wazoo, electricity, I mean CHEAP electricity abounds. Around here its about 12.5 cents per kilowatt. Europeans would give their I teeth for that. They are in a Russian stranglehold for natural gas. We are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas, with so much we probably can never run out. The Dakotas are the Saudi Arabia of wind, and efforts continue to construct the necessary machines to harvest it. We are on the cusp of great leaps, if the gov't will just get out of the way with their damned taxes on labor, initiative, risk, etc that are know as income taxes of all sorts. Yet their citizens don't have anywhere close to the disposable income that we do. Once they start attempting to equal us, all their work is going to beat feet to some other place with abject poor, and equally low taxes. Or, it could come here if we had zero income taxes on their industrial efforts. The Secretary of Education, along with the entire TLA, should be abolished. Local and state gov't's can do that job just fine at much less cost. It's waaaay more in gov't than in private industry. PI is all about cost savings and at least attempt to watch their money like a hawk. Those in gov't mostly don't give a shit 'cuz it ain't their money, and in fact if they don't spend it all, then the don't get as much next time. The DoD's waste is because it's gov't. The only way to reduce their waste is to reduce them, which the last President was happy to do. As a result, the entire Navy had to be scoured to come up with enough aircraft to field 3 carriers of the coast of North Korea. About 2/3rds of the Navy's planes won't fly because of the lack of spare parts and cannibalization that was necessary to get some to actually fly. If the DoD could cut some waste and make some planes fly, I'm 100% sure they would have done it. But they can't. There's too many people with a blood-sucking proboscis funneling the life-blood of the DoD out of the DoD and into their pockets. Catching them costs more than what they siphon off, but its still a lot. Its just not enough to make the DoD as effective as it should be. The DoD budget was raised, but that should have gone much further. The DoD is not the place to go looking for spare money, 'cuz they don't have it. The welfare programs are the place to go looking for money. There are ways to cut those without hurting anyone. Again, pass the FairTax. Industry will absolutely skyrocket. All those people that are fraudulently on SS disability, which is not all of them but far more than there should be, will be miraculously cured once they find that they can get a job at $30 an hour if they are capable of making their "bad back" perform to take a job in a factory. And those wages will spiral up as the 10's of 1000's of new factories begin to have to outbid each other to attract and retain employees who are having large sums of money dangled in front of their noses because some factory nearby needs a welder and there aren't any more, and you're making $25 / hr at your current job, and they'll give you $30 to switch. The people that are also on other welfare such as food stamps, that are getting by because the wages are so low that if they took a job they would actually be diminishing their prosperity, would also see that the new factories are paying a lot more than the Walmart, and they can take the job in the factory, pay the day care what they want, and still improve their prosperity because the factory wages are so high. Everything interacts, but the one thing for certain is that the income taxes are suppressing prosperity, and getting rid of them will increase prosperity. Someone's going to have to prove it to me. I haven't seen it. I don't think it's possible. Again, the poor don't pay a penny of FairTax. The rich _do_ expend piles of their piles, on baubles. Not all the rich do that, Warren Buffet is famously frugal for a rich guy, but there are many notable rich guys who burn thru cash like it was made to be spent. It all depends on the rich guy. That 757 Trump bought retails for $100M. Donald didn't buy it new, tho, he bought it off a Dutch airline if I remember right. So, if he got it for 1/4 of the new price, he's still contributing $7.5M to the US Treasury under the FairTax. Michael Jackson spent more than he made. Nick Cage was spending more than he made too, which is why he was planning the world tour that caused his death from the stress. Evel Kievel died broke, spent it all. Its not rare. And the sale of incredibly expensive boats, cars, and airplanes attest to the spending of the rich. Color TV was a big deal back in the late 60's and early 70's, and I was just to Elvis' mansion last month, and he had a room full of them, as in "many." The rich have always spent out the wazoo, and always will spend out the wazoo. And of course what the rich spend is just a matter of envy. IOW, it is not important. What is important is all those people who may or may not be rich, but are paying no taxes or less taxes than they should. Its blindingly easy with income taxes, all you have to do is lie on a form. Don't report everything. 150 million people under-reporting $6 is 900 million dollars. Can we say that most people are completely honest in their reporting of income taxes? I think I am - hell, I'm the sucker that volunteered that I spent about $4500 on the internet to buy things from Amazon that were mostly not tax-collected by the state of Virgina. Took my refund from something like, I think it was in the $400 range, down to where I owed $7. Does everyone do that? Do most people do that? Or am I just the sucker. Don't care, I'm going to shoot straight with the taxes, but would much prefer that the tax collection method was less easily avoided than simply lying about income. Al Capone lied about income, I think most of the big criminals lie about their income, and the little ones do to, and there's lots more of them. FairTax people have a study going that is showing that, probably $9 Trillion will be evaded from US income taxes over the next 10 years. Is that enough to make us all want the FairTax, which is much harder to evade? Gov't should be put on a fairly extensive diet. We should see what we can do without. We can't do without the DoD and we shouldn't try to do without the welfare programs, we should just try to help those on welfare to not be on welfare because they are too prosperous to qualify for it any more. I don't know what other programs can be abolished or cut without hurting people, but we're spending way too much for our level of industry to pay for. Increasing the prosperity amongst the people may be the only way to handle it, so that there's more out in society to tax. I think the FairTax is the ONLY way to achieve that. I can't think of another way that won't suppress prosperity.
|
|