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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Aug 19, 2018 9:26:01 GMT -5
Yes. Rob from the rich and give to the poor. I support that 110%. It's been the other way around for far too long.
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Post by rally2xs on Aug 19, 2018 11:17:13 GMT -5
Yes. Rob from the rich and give to the poor. I support that 110%. It's been the other way around for far too long. Then you support theivery. There's other ways to get the money from the rich with their cooperation, rather than by stealing it from them and making them resentful. Why steal?
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Post by minx on Aug 19, 2018 12:17:08 GMT -5
Dad always did have a manufacturing job and made good money. Perhaps that's why mom was able to afford to go to college and get a degree, eh? Because dad made good money. When you're a single parent "just relocate" isn't as easy as you'd like to make it sound. Even though your former partner may take no interest in their child at all, unless they've completely relinquished their parental rights, they can take you to court to stop you from moving. And, yes the parent who has physical custody usually will win in court. But lawyers cost money, court cases take time, and most employers aren't all that willing to hold a job for someone who may or may not be able to move, but can't tell you for 6 months. (and it happens a lot more than you think Rally - I've known more than one person who was trapped in an area by a spiteful ex) Plus, of course, there are those small intangible things like child care. I note that in your blurb above CRX says that "Traveling is a must" - what exactly is this woman supposed to do with her 9yo during that time? When I graduated from HS, you could take a retail job and work your way up through the store to a decent position - many stores would look at workers who were decent people and had potential and pull them to go to managerial school so they could be a future manager. The logic was that if there was upward potential, you'd be able to attract workers who wanted to stay, and if you promoted from within, then the people promoted would understand the working of the business so things would run smoothly, and the floor workers would be content. And it wasn't just retail - I have a lot of classmates who started out as file clerks or the like who through hard work made it up to the management level. Why aren't you advocating for those business practices to come back? Why is the be-all-and-end-all manufacturing jobs? Not everyone is cut out for physical labor (like being a trackman for CSX - incidentally, I doubt that you're going to get that $28/hr without any work experience) - what happens to those people? Yes, we do need to bring back more manufacturing than we currently have. And yes, some companies are starting to come back, which is a good thing. But I find myself wondering how long they'll want to stay for, and how much we (the taxpayer) are paying for each job created. If Widgets, Inc. opens a new plant in Arlington that will employ 50 people, but 100 people are going to be laid off at Better Barometers because of the tariffs imposed to lure Widget, Inc back here, is this a Good Thing? Too many people like you Rally, want to parrot the simple solution, when reality is a lot more complex and messy. These companies are only coming back because Trump, and the governors of the states they are going to are throwing money at them in the form of tax breaks and other 'incentives', while all the while screaming to the public that there's gonna be JOBS! Well, it doesn't do me any good, if we've created a job that will pay me $40K a year, if the government is paying the company $50K a year to create said job. Because the missing $10K had to come from *somewhere*, and we've all seem to have agreed that the rich have 'earned' their money, so we can't ask the CEO of the company to pay more to his workers, or take a pay cut themselves. So, I guess we'll cut services for those people who were lucky enough to relocate for that job - they should be happy that it was created after all.
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Post by rally2xs on Aug 19, 2018 12:49:21 GMT -5
If there are more manufacturing jobs, then there will be people fleeing the crap jobs in the big box stores, which will create a labor shortage there, and so MAYBE those people left in the crap jobs will still have to be paid more $$$$ in order to keep them from fleeing to the factories too. And of course the track jobs at CSX aren't manufacturing either, but they rely on it, and manufacturing relies on them. Experience in "track man?" How may people are there in the country that have experience in that? I think CSX is going to have to pay that $28 / hr to someone who walks in the door and wants to learn it, I doubt they'll get enough of the experienced to keep up with their need for whatever a track man does. Does a track man lay new track, or does he simply inspect the track that is already there, or what? I dunno. But they need help. At any rate, if there were 10 new factories opening in Ames, Iowa, I think the subject lady of the article would do well to go apply there, and maybe she could operate a machine at a much higher rate. Not everything is automated, some can't be, some would be too expensive to be. There will always be something to do in a factory, if its just feeding the machines raw material. Could a forklift operate be replaced by a series of conveyor belts? Maybe, but the conveyor belts would probably be more expensive than the forklift and operator, and still require people to operate 'em. But since factories produce things that they sell to make money, they have more money and can and do pay more wages for the help they need.
I think this is going to take time, and I'm still hopeful that the prosperity will spread as described above. Just because it isn't working immediately doesn't mean it won't work eventually.
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Post by bobathon on Aug 19, 2018 14:51:45 GMT -5
rally, the rich have been stealing from the rest of us for decades. Deck. Aides. Sentries, even.
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Post by bobathon on Aug 19, 2018 14:53:11 GMT -5
WHY ARE ANY JERBS IN AMERICA "CRAP" JERBS? WHO CONTROLS THAT, rally? WHY ISN'T THERE A LIVABLE MINIMUM WAGE?
See my post above for a clue.
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Post by No. 1 son on Aug 19, 2018 15:19:05 GMT -5
Yes. Rob from the rich and give to the poor. I support that 110%. It's been the other way around for far too long. It seems so logical at first glance, and some wealth sharing would be a good thing. I don't suppose you see a mechanism for that in our present system of corporate cronyism do you? A simple transfer of wealth without a renewed sharing of responsibilities would have terrible consequences, once the initial euphoria wore off.
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Post by minx on Aug 20, 2018 9:20:01 GMT -5
I do think a large part of the problem is the whole idea of 'bettering' yourself, or wanting to pull yourself up by the bootstraps. It goes hand and hand with the idea that some jobs are 'beneath' people.
So, you have Rally extolling the value of manufacturing work, while saying that retail jobs are 'beneath', and therefore have no intrinsic value. However, if I were saying that I was laid off and had no job, he'd probably be the first to point out that there were tons of retail jobs out there right now. So, am I going to be happy and productive if I just took a job that society told me is 'beneath' me? What if WalMart is the only major employer left in town, and I can't afford to relocate my family?
This is a major problem in our society, and it's not a new one either - we claim to value work, and say that everyone benefits from being able to work, yet we constantly put down jobs that we don't like. So office workers sneer at those on an assembly line, and the assembly line workers sneer at the retail workers, who sneer at the janitors, ect.
We tell people that any job is a good job, but then we (as a society) belittle those in certain professions. Perhaps if we tried to stop treating jobs as though they were beneath people, and strove to have ALL workers have decent pay and working conditions, then we'd be making progress. We shouldn't be asking why a cashier should make a living wage when an EMT doesn't - we should be asking why both jobs are receiving such low pay instead.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Aug 20, 2018 9:37:34 GMT -5
The answer to that question of "why" is simple and predates civilization- A Ruling Class.
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Post by rally2xs on Aug 20, 2018 11:10:53 GMT -5
"retail jobs are 'beneath', and therefore have no intrinsic value."
No, no, no!!! They are simply crap jobs because the activity produces no wealth and the competition between retailers is intense. Therefore, wages are, always have been, and always will be low. Its just a basic truism of how the economy works. Add to it the fact that most retail jobs can be learned in a relatively short time, so you've got hordes of people applying for them, and employers have no problem finding enough people to work for peanuts that they have no reason not to pay peanuts.
Just how it works.
Doesn't mean retail workers are not good people. They're just working in the wrong sector of the economy. Don't do it.
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Post by rally2xs on Aug 20, 2018 11:17:04 GMT -5
rally, the rich have been stealing from the rest of us for decades. Deck. Aides. Sentries, even. What rich person has come into your house and robbed you at gunpoint? None have done so to me. I can decide not to do business with them whenever I want to. Only the gov't robs us. Its called income taxes. Sure, you send it in voluntarily, but not really, because you know if you don't, you'll get men with automatic weapons raiding your house in the middle of the night to collect those taxes. Those are the robbers, not businesses / rich people. Businesses cannot force you to spend your money with them, and they can't come into your house with guns and take your money without you having done something to owe them, and then it's still the sheriff that will come to repossess your house or whatever, not a business or rich person. Gov't does the thefts...
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Post by bobathon on Aug 20, 2018 12:03:29 GMT -5
The government goes to rich people's homes and robs them at gunpoint? Apples to apples, please.
It's structural and you're too willfully stupid to bother with. Just give everyone a free pass and tax consumption by the poor to middle class.
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