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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 5, 2021 12:12:04 GMT -5
What constitutes a Civil War? War fighting within the borders of a country? Shit we have that here in Chicago, DC, Portland, Houston.... they are killing each other for something, territory maybe? www.axios.com/milley-afghanistan-civil-war-likely-al-qaeda-threat-893db25a-5fdd-4980-b53b-d419b87fb175.htmlI may not be a grajumate of the War Collage but when the most formidable military in the world provides enough stability in a foreign land (foreign by almost every definition but the most important one is the extreme fundamentalist religious culture) to prevent said "Civil War" for 20 years, then immediately upon relief of said occupation the ruling war faction returns to control... who exactly tf are they going to civil war with? The afghan military (no disrespect to the people that served and sacrificed for the right reasons) threw the white flag up before the wheels on the last c130 to leave. Maybe on the first!
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 7, 2021 11:47:04 GMT -5
let's pretend the afghani opposition, protests, and protesters are able to actually organize a military rebellion tasked to wipe out the taliban, and there is an actual civil war. Color me stupid but isn't that how it SHOULD be done? I think Biden put it best when he said the people there are going to need to stand up for themselves and that it will take their sacrifices rather than rely on us to make it for them and longer.
I also love the attempt by the tally bums to act like they are genuinely interested in governing a country, including having trade partners overseas. Trying to market themselves as something other than a reprehensible and brutal cultist regime that executes women for learning to read, and performs all manner of torture and terror upon the people who can't or won't fight back. Very BC of them.
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Post by minx on Sept 7, 2021 15:42:11 GMT -5
We didn't go in there to take out the Taliban. We went in to hunt down Bin Laden.
But as soon as Rummy and his friends realized that there were dollas in them thar hills, you know we were there to stay a while.
So yeah, we needed to have left at least a decade ago. My real objection is with how we left.
1)After having been there 20 years, and working with the Afghan government for that time frame, our intelligence still seems to had no idea of the strength of the Taliban or its influence in rural areas? That's a huge intelligence failure to me, and heads should roll as a result. 2)The evacuation itself - again, no apparent planning. Did our military think we'd stay forever? Were there no draw down plans at all? Considering that we were the ones keeping the Taliban from making any moves, I'd have thought we could have dumped a shit load of troops in and had them systematically tear down the bases completely before leaving. And on their way out, they could have taken anyone who would be shot on site for cooperating with them. Again, huge intelligence failure here. And in Kabul itself it's turning out that in the chaos, lots of people got on those planes who didn't have any connection with the forces there. Don't blame them for fleeing, but what happens next? And what about the Afghanis who weren't able to get on a plane because of those folks, but totally deserved a spot. 3) Last but not least, it was inhumane for Biden to throw the Afghan army under the bus like he did. We were attempting to take people Who had no military training at all, and who were completely illiterate and turn them into the marines. And from everything I read, once again, we were imposing our methods and ideology onto them rather than actually assessing the situation and adapting our training to that. Then we're all shocked when they have enough sense to understand that they can throw down their arms and let the Taliban in, or they can try to fight and watch everyone in their village get slaughtered.
However, easier to say that the Afghani people are a bunch of cowardly idiots and that no one could have foreseen the Taliban taking over so quickly, or the chaos at the airports.
Just like there was no way to have foreseen that a group of Saudi terrorists would decide to fly commercial airliners into buildings. Or to foresee that giving people index cards as 'proof' of vaccination wouldn't result in a nice black market for counterfeit cards.
That's what makes America Great! Our remarkable foresight.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 12, 2021 3:42:02 GMT -5
Yeah we should have left like 18 years ago. And the so-called Afghan government was 100% corrupt. That's why they disappeared. They also were left out of any discussions about us leaving, because they were irrelevant. We didn't actually plan a transition, we bailed. So what else should we have expected? For all that shit, it actually went pretty well (because Taliban wants international respect?).
I hope China has more fun there than we or the Rooskies did.
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