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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Aug 22, 2022 11:24:02 GMT -5
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Post by minx on Aug 22, 2022 13:50:34 GMT -5
I think the fear of witnesses in a situation like this is that they're going to be shot if they try to intervene.
You have a bunch of armed police officers who are clearly out of control - the fear that they'll turn on you and kill you is quite real. I think the guy who was filming it said he was afraid to get out of his car or turn off the engine.
But it's okay - just a few more bad apples who didn't bother turning on their malfunctioning body cams.
The saddest part of the whole bad apple argument is that there are good officers out there who truly want to protect and serve. But we all know that snitches get stitches and it's definitely true among the men and women in blue. And I don't see any amount of training breaking that code. And heaven forbid we train police to stop using 'instinct' on everything - they mouthed off to me, and my instincts went off - this here is a dangerous criminal!
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Aug 22, 2022 15:44:55 GMT -5
This is purely hypothetical okay-
What if an armed citizen aka a good guy with a gun drew on these three fuctards? I know your first thought, kinda aimimng for your second. So again, hypothetically, the video shows an armed bystander draws on these officers of the godamn law and order them off of the person..... to which an officer very unwisely decides to attempt to pull his weapon.
Now add your scenario above where the armed citizen goes before the media (and courts) and claims the actions of the officers made them fear for their safety and that of the general public?
If these jerkoffs had killed the man and the video was available to convict them, then is it not plausible that a precedent could be set right there that those unbound to duty AND breaking the law not be subject to the public's good guy's aim?
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Aug 22, 2022 15:48:42 GMT -5
PS- I'm not interested in having the 4 millionth debate about good cops and bad cops. We all know they're both. We know training blah blah blah.... this is rubber meeting road, bad cops doing bad cop things. If good cops were around, we could talk about why when and who. I'm sure yall saw the guy with badge-roid rage assault a good cop trying to stop him from doing bad cop shit. If not, let me know and I'll lonk it. He was fired and charged with assault. That's all I know about it to date.
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Post by k9krap on Aug 22, 2022 20:22:49 GMT -5
The show “Chicago PD” shows quite a bit of dirty and abusive policing. The lead, Hank Voight, is as dirty as they come and his favorite interrogation technique is torture. I hate that character. But he has ethics, which is the unreal part. They’re always following up on victims and a lot of the money he gets from payoffs goes to those victims, especially the ones that need to leave Chicago. There are cops that do this but I don’t think they’re the same ones abetting and beating criminals.
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Post by bobathon on Aug 23, 2022 5:31:32 GMT -5
There's always your Qualified Immunity. Legislation courtesy the SCrOTUS. Basically says "cops can do no wrong, shut up." Your common Good Guy With A Gun doesn't get QI.
If I were on the jury for your GGWG, I'd be pushing for Not Guilty or engage in jury nullification.
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Post by minx on Aug 23, 2022 9:45:48 GMT -5
I 100% believe that the bad cops think that they're doing what's right. They realize they're corrupt, but they've become corrupt because the bad guys made them that way - they're on the side of good.
And I don't feel there would be enough video out there to acquit the GGWG in your scenario John. The boys in blue would be spinning that shit before you could even open your mouth to it being open season on cops.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Aug 23, 2022 10:33:50 GMT -5
So the reason I introduced this hypothetical is because I believe, given the current climate, that it will happen sooner or later. Someone, somewhere, at some point, is going to have to make a decision about whether or not their duty as a person of conscience will over-ride their "respect for authority" when a person's life hangs in the balance like this guy in the video. That doesn't necessarily mean pulling a firearm on them but in my estimation that would be the best way to protect yourself and the person they are victimizing. One could also simply bum rush the fuckers but risk a great deal of harm to themselves. Another scenario would and will be when a crowd gathers and collectively decides this shit stops now.
I'm in no way defending the suspect and in some select cases, if I knew what they did, can turn and walk away as they deserve every head smash they get. The blatant disregard for the laws and those who enforce them (and everyone and everything in between) is a larger problem in my opinion. But in general, this is unacceptable and must not be tolerated. If the good cops and the upper badges, the unions, the governing bodies, and the courts won't act, then we will have no choice. And if we are fortunate enough to capture these events as video evidence, in their entire context, then all of the official press conferences in the world won't be able to stop the movement that ensues.
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Post by minx on Aug 23, 2022 13:52:14 GMT -5
You have a point. And I too am not defending the suspect or saying that they don't deserve to be arrested. Just that this type of force should not be used, and that people should not be shot in the back while trying to flee.
And I agree that sooner or later people are going to take this into their own hands, which is also problematic.
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Post by bobathon on Aug 23, 2022 18:40:30 GMT -5
But the head smashes are supposed to be delivered by the Judiciary system.
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