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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 20, 2016 15:53:30 GMT -5
Watch the video from whatever "source" and note the editing per network agenda. Audio varies from one to another also. What they all show is a guy at gunpoint, with his hands in the air, walking away from an officer and going toward his vehicle's driver's door. A good many have their minds made up. Murdered. A good many others have theirs made up too. Don't fucking move when a cop has a gun pointed at you. A reminder to holster sniffers; Not every kill is a righteous one. Cowards shoot first some of the time and fear for their lives all of the time. A reminder to BLM; When the fires are extinguished and the glass is all picked up, and the businesses in the community closed for good, you missed a spot.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2016 15:56:01 GMT -5
Hard to tell what's going on. What I did notice is that cops are getting very good at blocking camera angles with bodies and cars. Expect this to be training topic.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 20, 2016 16:01:18 GMT -5
I even noticed some of the unions are demanding that body cameras be ditched.
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pasta
Juvenile Delinquint
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Post by pasta on Sept 20, 2016 22:18:22 GMT -5
Early in the dashcam video, the car passes at least two other cruisers with their lights on and comes upon at least one other (if not more) at the scene. Why so many cars with lights and sirens for a broken down car? Having not heard anything about it before seeing the dashcam, I assumed it was during a chase.
I'm not saying it justifies murder, not by a long shot, and you guys have a pretty good idea what side of things I'm usually on, but the multiple cars called makes me think this was more than a simple breakdown in the middle of the road. I also predict that the victim's past is about to be turned darker (A single arrest in 1992 for simple possessio, or some other similar bullshit, will be used to make him look like a... well, we all know the word they're going to use, don't we?)
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Post by sipowitz86 on Sept 21, 2016 7:41:50 GMT -5
I even noticed some of the unions are demanding that body cameras be ditched. And those unions have endorsed Herr Drumpf. Maybe they want a promotion from Law Enforcement Officer to Gestapo. Gonna be high times for them if they have a fascist in the White House who will not only excuse but encourage extrajudicial killings.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 21, 2016 9:18:33 GMT -5
Accountability is for peons, not enforcers or overlords.
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DA
mob associate
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Post by DA on Sept 21, 2016 18:15:08 GMT -5
The guys hands, or at least his right hand, dropped when he was at his vehicle, prior to his being shot. My mind isn't made up on this yet; still reading up on it and trying to get more information. Letting the man open his door or reach into his vehicle through an open window would be foolish for everyone involved. Lesson to be learned.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 21, 2016 18:22:52 GMT -5
But we do know, no matter what else, this dude was not going for a weapon.
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DA
mob associate
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Post by DA on Sept 22, 2016 0:01:33 GMT -5
True, but hindsight is always 20/20.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 22, 2016 4:36:13 GMT -5
Yep. It's a real conundrum, that we want less violence in law enforcement, but we train them to fear.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 22, 2016 9:28:34 GMT -5
It may be, in general terms, but in this case it's more scientific. Normal people (not even me!) don't walk away from a cop with a gun pointed at them telling them to stop, let alone continue to their vehicle and make a move that resembles reaching or going into the vehicle, no matter what their purpose. It would be just like going into their pocket under the same circumstance. Cops are no more obligated to surrender their well being than we are and the biggest mistake, if your want to call it that, was that he wasn't tazed when he took that second or third step toward the truck.
My conumdrum comes in that the person is dead for no good reason and automatically I want to be pissed at the cops, but also have a hard time not putting the blame where it belongs.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 22, 2016 9:45:28 GMT -5
You all have probably seen or heard about the Charlotte NC thing by now. Cops say guy had a gun and was told to put it down (implying he was holding one and given a warning). Another bible school teacher and father of 4 out god knows where at 3 in the morning turning his life around, capped. City on fire, businesses smashed, and no one really gives two fucks about what actually happened before rioting, uh, I mean protesting.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 22, 2016 9:51:04 GMT -5
Riots are also shared responsibility events.
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pasta
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Post by pasta on Sept 22, 2016 11:27:32 GMT -5
Yes, they most certainly are. Every time they are given credit for being heroes and putting their lives on the line, they confirm that they are, in fact, obligated to do the thing they claim to do. If that means taking few extra seconds to determine if it's a real gun or a BB gun, they ARE obligated to risk their life instead of murdering a 12 year old. That's one of the things they knowingly signed up to do.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 22, 2016 14:50:59 GMT -5
Show me that contract or statute, and I'll agree.
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Post by minx on Sept 22, 2016 14:56:23 GMT -5
For the moment, lets assume that all traffic stops and all police encounters are high-risk situations with life-threatening consequences for police. If that's so, why aren't the police wearing at least minimal protection (bulletproof vests) at all stops? Seems like most of them aren't at least from what I've seen. Maybe if the police were in full body armor, they wouldn't feel so afraid and might take that extra second to verify if someone's really a danger.
FWIW, when I was in HS, good friend of mine was doing LSD and other things - poor kid freaked out on a trip and grabbed a knife and tried to kill her mom. Mom called 911, police came and subdued her (without a taser or firing a shot) and sent her to the psych ward (from there she went to rehab). If that happened today, all we'd be reading about is a deranged woman with a knife and how the police *had* to shoot her. Something has changed over time, and not for the better.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 22, 2016 15:01:51 GMT -5
It's Obama's fault.
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Post by minx on Sept 22, 2016 16:04:06 GMT -5
What will we do when Obama leaves office? Who will we blame 10 years down the road.
I say install him as King for Life so we always have someone reliable to blame!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 16:21:25 GMT -5
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 22, 2016 18:09:42 GMT -5
For the moment, lets assume that all traffic stops and all police encounters are high-risk situations with life-threatening consequences for police. If that's so, why aren't the police wearing at least minimal protection (bulletproof vests) at all stops? Seems like most of them aren't at least from what I've seen. Maybe if the police were in full body armor, they wouldn't feel so afraid and might take that extra second to verify if someone's really a danger. FWIW, when I was in HS, good friend of mine was doing LSD and other things - poor kid freaked out on a trip and grabbed a knife and tried to kill her mom. Mom called 911, police came and subdued her (without a taser or firing a shot) and sent her to the psych ward (from there she went to rehab). If that happened today, all we'd be reading about is a deranged woman with a knife and how the police *had* to shoot her. Something has changed over time, and not for the better. Most of them are wearing vests when they're on duty now. It's under their shirt. That's why they look like umpires with badges. A lot of things have changed but I'd rather not give myself or anyone the headache of going into it in depth right now. But the bottom line to it all, IMO, is the general state of society in general and it started with working mothers and absent fathers.
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pasta
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Post by pasta on Sept 22, 2016 20:10:07 GMT -5
Show me that contract or statute, and I'll agree. Show me a discussion about police that doesn't involve a phrase like "they risk their lives" and maybe I'll walk it back. Show me a flag-draped casket and funeral in full class A uniform for an accountant. They get the reputation for risking their lives, but then aren't expected to actually do it? And if they're not expected to actually do it, if their job is meant to be equally as risky as mine in my little cubicle, then they should be treated just like the rest of us pussies. I'd rather they keep their pomp and circumstance and rituals and all, and they fucking deserve our respect for putting their lives on the line, but they've got actually DO THAT.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 23, 2016 12:26:16 GMT -5
Not to belabor the point because I've said that exact thing many times. In fact, if you know me at all you've seen me post "Why no funeral parade for electricians?".
But that's a societal thing, and maybe even a cop culture thing, but it's not an employee handbook thing. Again, there is no signed contract or statute that obligates a LE officer to surrender their well being. The ones that do are usually the "heroes". Just sayin.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 23, 2016 12:51:03 GMT -5
And the rest bask in the undeserved limelight. Blue privilege lives!
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 23, 2016 13:17:32 GMT -5
Well, when every bad outcome that involves a non-Caucasian is automatically pre-screened to determine cause and blame, then it's absolutely a factor in how it's presented and viewed by the idiot masses. Do you trust them to come up with viable alternatives let alone reasonable recommendations for LE during these encounters? If you, yourself, were to look at each one of these first person, your perception would probably change greatly. For example, do you look at the video of the Tulsa shooting and think "what will I do next?" No. You think "this is what she should have done." Arm chair quarterbacking at its finest. Me, my first thought was "don't do it motherfucker". So what we have is CNN running a loop and bringing out 100 "experts"...... oops, cut to Charlotte. Another brother down! Murdered by da po leeses!!! Loop the video Gus! What? No cams on the scene? Well make something up we have air time to fill!!!!!!!!! Meanwhile, a 15 year old cunt in Hagerstown has lawyered up against the po po because 2 white devils in uniform pepper sprayed her ignorant black ass for well, you'll see. Cue CNN! By the way, she was 15, trying to leave the scene of an accident, fleeing detention, assault on an officer, and possession of mary j wanna. Her parents are watching football and have a Jonny Cochran magnet on the refrigerator for just such an emergency.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 23, 2016 13:39:22 GMT -5
I don't like seeing cops escalate confrontations. And I see that time after time. All I can attribute it to is longstanding bad relationship practices (since the only new thing seems to be ubiquitous cameras). Cops have the authority, they need lessons in de-escalation (as well as zero tolerance for steroids, mandatory bodycams, etc). Not everyone needs to be brought in nownownow (per SCrOTUS). Even if they are stupid. Even if they did commit a crime. But somehow cops often seem to think that any and every potential suspect must be brought in nownownow, dead or alive. They get their hammer out, and pound those nails. That's not right.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 23, 2016 13:41:49 GMT -5
Also, though they clearly hate America, FBI warned that white supremacists were infiltrating LEO agencies. 10 years ago. So that may be a "new" factor, too. I doubt it, though.
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Post by minx on Sept 23, 2016 14:08:22 GMT -5
The last time my car broke down, the police did not tell me to get my hands up and freeze even though I was clearly outside of the car and walking towards them. But then again, I'm not a big scary black dude either. I've never had to had 'the talk' with my kids about how to stay alive if stopped by the police, and I imagine none of you have had to either
Just like most men don't understand why women have the 'stay safe, don't get raped' talk, most whites don't understand the 'driving while black' talk.
I think of my friend every time I see a story where a cop shot someone (regardless of race) because they were mentally ill and having a breakdown. If that happened today, the cops wouldn't have disarmed her, but shot her instead.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 23, 2016 14:24:01 GMT -5
I liked that the helo guys were pre judicial about the situation.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Sept 23, 2016 16:05:23 GMT -5
Actually, I've had those discussions with my kids and many more about subjects like self-preservation, awareness, responsibility, and their rights across the board. One of the prevailing messages I've always tried to emphasize is to avoid all compromising positions whenever possible. And if they do, not to follow them up with even worse ones. That goes very deep even for crackers like them.
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Post by bobathon on Sept 23, 2016 16:09:52 GMT -5
I had speaks with my yoots. Still, there are no specific actions anyone can take that guarantee a cop won't shoot them. And that's not how it ought to be. So let's keep Imperial encounters to a minimum.
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