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Post by bobathon on Dec 19, 2015 8:36:26 GMT -5
By your "logic", me paying for the goods and services I receive is the same feel good rationalization. Just give me it free. Why should I pay for what I get? You want corporations to get it free, why shouldn't I get it free? Same same.
PS I haven't forgotten that you are an eliminationist scumbag, you murderous monster piece of human filth. Just an FYI, you genocide enthusiast. Kill them all until rally feels safer is the worst idea since Hitler blamed the Jews for all German ills. Ya NAZI.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 19, 2015 8:40:25 GMT -5
By your "logic", me paying for the goods and services I receive is the same feel good rationalization. Just give me it free. Why should I pay for what I get? You want corporations to get it free, why shouldn't I get it free? Same same. PS I haven't forgotten that you are an eliminationist scumbag, you murderous monster piece of human filth. Just an FYI, you genocide enthusiast. Kill them all until rally feels safer is the worst idea since Hitler blamed the Jews for all German ills. Ya NAZI. Once again, another "it feels right to me" argument, without stating how doing so will make life better for the most people. And then you try to change the subject. Well, I understand, because you can't really state a reason why taxing corporations is better, can you, since taxing corporations makes life WORSE for most people.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 19, 2015 9:06:53 GMT -5
I used your logic. So I can understand why that is so unconvincing.
Why should anyone pay for anything? When you answer that, you will have answered why corporations should pay taxes. You sycophantic genocide enthusiast.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 19, 2015 10:27:19 GMT -5
I used your logic. So I can understand why that is so unconvincing. Why should anyone pay for anything? When you answer that, you will have answered why corporations should pay taxes. You sycophantic genocide enthusiast. Again, how does taxing corporations make people's lives better?
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Post by bobathon on Dec 19, 2015 10:37:11 GMT -5
The existence of our government makes our lives better. Is your life better because you are defended? Yes, or daesh would already have killed your hateful and murderous NAZI ass. The government is not free. Funding the government is via taxes.
QED
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Post by bobathon on Dec 19, 2015 10:44:00 GMT -5
And since when the fuck do you give a good goddamn about the people having better conditions, Mr Bootstrap Individualist? What a shitty little inconsistent hypocrite you are. Try living 100% on your own - you would have nothing. Someone else made every element of your home, your clothes, your car, your neighborhood, etc, you ungrateful wretch. That's why we have a COLLECTIVE culture, with shared burdens - but sycophant wealth worshipper rally wants some people to get the benefit of our collective efforts without providing their fair share of effort in return. That ain't remotely democratic or representative - but then, you pick and choose what Merkin values you subscribe to anyway.
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Post by MF on Dec 19, 2015 14:02:23 GMT -5
And since when the fuck do you give a good goddamn about the people having better conditions, Mr Bootstrap Individualist? What a shitty little inconsistent hypocrite you are. Try living 100% on your own - you would have nothing. Someone else made every element of your home, your clothes, your car, your neighborhood, etc, you ungrateful wretch. That's why we have a COLLECTIVE culture, with shared burdens - but sycophant wealth worshipper rally wants some people to get the benefit of our collective efforts without providing their fair share of effort in return. That ain't remotely democratic or representative - but then, you pick and choose what Merkin values you subscribe to anyway. Now, how do you really feel about that ?
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 19, 2015 16:40:53 GMT -5
The existence of our government makes our lives better. Is your life better because you are defended? Yes, or daesh would already have killed your hateful and murderous NAZI ass. The government is not free. Funding the government is via taxes. QEDTaxes are necessary, but corporate income taxes are not. You are trying to generalize. I'm saying that we should abolish all corporate income taxes at a minimum, and all Federal income taxes as an ideal. There's other stuff to tax. Income taxes cause great harm to the people, more so than many other forms of taxation.
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Post by pastafari on Dec 19, 2015 22:33:05 GMT -5
Why isn't "because it's the right thing to do" a good enough answer on it's own?
As for how "little" the country gets from corporate taxes, so what? Is a thief found Not Guilty if he only steals "a little bit of money"?
I doubt any of the "harms" you would cite are any more harmful than merely being expected to pay for the things they use. It's their frame of mind that that tax isn't something they ought to be paying that makes it feel like a "harm". If they considered taxes as the cost of doing business just like they consider materials costs as a cost of doing business, they'd be just fine with paying taxes.
I have no sympathy for a company that says, "Because I was forced to pay for the things that I used I only made four million dollars instead of seven, so I'm leaving." Fuck you, see ya, bye. Especially when they should be saying, "I'm lucky enough to be an American businessman and I made four million dollars this year, after expenses."
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Post by pastafari on Dec 19, 2015 22:37:41 GMT -5
No, corporations make life worse for most people when they pass on their tax burden to others.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 19, 2015 23:43:44 GMT -5
Why isn't "because it's the right thing to do" a good enough answer on it's own? Because its not the right thing to do, it only appears as “justice.” In actuality, the quest to make corporations pay “their fair share” has driven many businesses into bankruptcy because they could not compete with less-taxed foreign goods, and has driven many other businesses to do their manufacturing outside this country, again for the reason of US taxes precluding a profit, or greatly diminishing the profit. The fact that the “take” from corporate income tax is so low illustrates the failure of the concept of taxing businesses to produce significant benefit to the US Gov’t’s revenue stream. IOW, it just isn’t working very well, and as “collateral damage” has cast millions of Americans, who can no longer find good-paying factory jobs, and instead struggle along on multiple part-time retail jobs, into poverty. This is an egregious evil that could be eliminated by abolishing the counterproductive income taxation of American business. Millions of US citizens are in poverty now, and the US corporate income taxes are responsible. What makes it feel like harm is that they have to price their products significantly higher than the same kinds of products imported from untaxed and lower-taxed foreign manufacturing. Europe, with its vast VAT taxes, REMOVES those taxes when their products hit the shipping docks and are loaded onto ships to be delivered here. And of course the USA is the highest corporate income tax in the world, so if they didn’t remove it, and for other countries that don’t remove it, they can _still_ sell cheaper here than US-manufactured goods. Sooo… our factories continue to move overseas because it is the way to survive. Another strategy is to build US manufactured goods more cheaply, so if they can get close to competitive, the products produced break more easily, or are more cheaply appointed than the ones from foreign manufacturers. (My friend just bought a new foreign car and you should see all the bells and whistles, and it was for a good price, too.) They’d continue to go bankrupt, and move overseas, just like they’ve been doing for decades. Easy for you to say, now tell it to the guy who is on his last month of unemployment because his $60,000 / year factory job left for Mexico, and he’s now forced into struggling at minimum wage working 3 part-time jobs that take all his time away from seeing his kids, wife, etc. There’s now 94 million people not in the workforce, and the U6 unemployment rate, that counts those that are underemployed as well as those that have become discouraged from actually looking for work because nobody is finding any jobs anyway is up around 10%. Yeah, the widely ballyhooed “unemployment rate” has fallen to 5%, but it is only because it doesn’t count those that aren’t looking for work because they’re convinced they’ll never find any, and those that are underemployed in jobs far below their capabilities and not working full-time when they’d like to have a full-time job. You have to get over the idea that this is about being nice to American business. It isn’t. Its being nice to the American people, and “doing the right thing” to bring jobs back to America and thus promoting prosperity. The way to do that is to abolish all the income taxes, but most importantly abolishing the corporate income taxes.
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Post by pastafari on Dec 20, 2015 14:20:56 GMT -5
So, your argument is that making American companies pay their fair share makes them unable to compete with foreign companies who are not paying their fair share. Can you think of a pretty simple solution to that?
[jeopardy theme]
[/jeopardy theme]
Why not tax the foreign goods even more? That allows the Americans to do the right thing and pay for the things they use, and it takes away the foreign advantage.
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Post by pastafari on Dec 20, 2015 14:40:18 GMT -5
If that guy wants answers, he needs to ask his greedy boss why he wasn't happy with the money he was making and decided that it meant more to him to put more cash in his pockets then keep his company in America. I didn't say I didn't have sympathy for the employees, I don't have sympathy for the company owners.
No. Businesses are not special and should not get a pass on paying for things from which they benefit, because that is stealing.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 20, 2015 17:36:01 GMT -5
This is truly amazing. It is now obvious that you understand that income taxes are causing great injury to America's working class, but you don't care because your hatred of those that manage the corporations that are failing due to the income tax is more important than people out of work and living in refrigerator boxes under bridges because of it.
Consider me not an admirer.
And yes, corporations _are_ a special case because they have such great ability to bring good to all the American people, if only they would be left alone, and preferably assisted by the gov't to do it. Impeding corporations by treating them as a source of money, so you can tax and appear to be taxing someone other than the people, even tho it is untrue and the people pay it anyway, is an evil that kills.
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Post by pastafari on Dec 20, 2015 20:34:28 GMT -5
Why should anyone pay taxes, then? Am I not injured by having to put money into things that I don't agree with? I mean, yeah, I like having paved roads and all, but shouldn't I be able to enjoy all of that for free? It INJURES me to pay taxes.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 20, 2015 20:53:55 GMT -5
OK, you're injured by paying taxes. When you're referring to income taxes, I agree. You should not have to pay income taxes, as they are theft. In order not to be theft, they would have to be avoidable, and income taxes are not.
This is where we get back to the Fair tax. The Fair Tax does not steal from people. In fact, it untaxes the poor completely, and the richer-than-poor only pay the Fair Tax when they purchase new retail items for sale, and services, after spending up to the poverty level. That is, if you're single, and the poverty level is $12K / yr, then that is $1000 / month and the Fair Tax on your spending up to $1000 / month is paid for you. Want to avoid paying taxes? Then don't buy those products beyond the level of poverty. Ergo, the Fair Tax is 100% avoidable, and is therefore not theft and cannot harm you unless you allow it to.
And the Fair Tax does not tax businesses a penny. That is why the Fair Tax will cause an economy boom of biblical proportions.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 21, 2015 6:46:34 GMT -5
Yes, tax every good at 50+%, great idea. Have consumption foot every bill. FFS. Soon enough 99+% of us will s be making out like bandits, since we'll be in poverty.
Do you really believe that if a company reduces its expenses it passes that savings on to its employees? BWAAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAAHAAHAAHAA! What a naif!
PS Fuck you some more, you goddamned shitball genocide enthusiast.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 21, 2015 8:32:12 GMT -5
Have consumption foot every bill. Who do you think is funding it now?
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