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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 10:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 9, 2015 11:11:22 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Dec 9, 2015 11:25:40 GMT -5
Hey, stop whining and work harder, and one day you too will be rich. Just look at MF's vast wealth.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 9, 2015 11:46:41 GMT -5
I'm tired of working. It's too much work. I think I'm just gonna quit and get my freebies... anyone have any idea where I sign up or does Obama come to me?
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Post by bobathon on Dec 9, 2015 11:50:19 GMT -5
You haven't been getting the robocalls on your Obamaphone?
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Post by minx on Dec 9, 2015 12:17:55 GMT -5
I keep getting some dude who says my computer has a virus. Maybe that's why I'm not getting my handouts....
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 5:02:20 GMT -5
Its once again so funny that you libs will lay blame absolutely anywhere except where it belongs.
All that private industry does is in response to the policies set up by THE GOVERNMENT. So if THE GOVERNMENT decides to set up an income tax that tries to steal 35% of everything they make as profit, and they move as much operations that they can somewhere other than our country in order to avoid being stolen from, you blame "the evil rich" rather than the short-sighted, larcenous government whose polices instigated the very logical and very predictable actions upon the part of not just Walmart, but all industry within the country.
And the Chinese manipulate their currency to our benefit and theirs, because they become overly-competitive in the world market because of it, and benefit their people with work, and benefit our people with fantastically cheap products. I mean, it is amazing how cheap a lot of the things sold in Walmart are. You get some really amazing stuff for really amazingly low prices. That's good for us, and good for them. Except, of course, that it makes attempting to build things here with American factories less competitive, primarily because of the income taxes that further burden US industry with unnecessary expense. We might be able to make headway against their currency manipulation with untaxed industry that didn't have to buy passage on container ships for a 6000 mile trip from China to the USA for all the goods produced, but rather could be distributed throughout the USA on rail and truck. But no, US GOV'T POLICY is to favor China by charging their goods no tax, while taxing the H out of our own goods produced here.
IT IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, THE FAULT OF THE US GOV'T, unless someone is actually breaking a law. Nope, Walmart hasn't been sent to jail for anything yet... maybe they should be for hiring illegal aliens to clean the stores at night, but other than that, they appear to be doing exactly what the US GOV'T has encouraged them to do.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 13, 2015 9:36:06 GMT -5
I seriously doubt you have the capacity to understand this and if this website offered Crayola font, that probably wouldn't help either but it might be worth a shot... so try to follow the bouncing doo dads...
THE US GOVERNMENT IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY THE PEOPLE YOU ARE FAWNING OVER.
So with that in mind, you're actually on us liberals' side!!!! Suck on that for a while numbnuts!!!
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 9:48:49 GMT -5
I seriously doubt you have the capacity to understand this and if this website offered Crayola font, that probably wouldn't help either but it might be worth a shot... so try to follow the bouncing doo dads... THE US GOVERNMENT IS BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY THE PEOPLE YOU ARE FAWNING OVER. So with that in mind, you're actually on us liberals' side!!!! Suck on that for a while numbnuts!!! Yes, I know it is corrupt, but that is SOMETHING ELSE we need to do something about. Getting rid of the damned income taxes would send half the lobbyists home, and help the situation. Repealing the 17th amendment, and going back to having senators appointed by the state legislatures, would send a hell of a lot of the rest of them home, since they wouldn't be running around trying to buy senator's votes with campaign donations - getting appointed as Senator by your state's legislature doesn't involve much of a campaign, y'know. The wisdom of the Founding Fathers was immense, and they took a REALLY long time to come up with the Constitution, investing great thought into everything that could go wrong. Did they foresee what would happen by concentrating power into just 2 men per state and directly electing them? Probably. But that's 2 consecutive amendments, 16, the income taxes, and 17, the direct election of senators, that I believe have gravely damaged this country. Due to the 16th Amendment, the US Gov't is stealing the people blind, and driving industry out of the country with this theft, while the FF's specifically forbid such direct taxation. We're not going to survive these mistakes as a great country. We're slowly, very slowly like boiling the frog very gradually, headed for the status of 3rd world country. We already can't maintain our fantastic infrastructure, it is crumbling, and the money to fix it is being held outside the country to avoid having the gov't confiscate 35% of it if it were to be brought into the country. The estimate of the size of this motherlode is from $13 trillion to $31 trillion. Would that fix the roads? You bet. But we'll never see it if the gov't wants to confiscate some of it just for bringing it into the country. |
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Post by MF on Dec 13, 2015 10:46:24 GMT -5
Economic 101,,,,,defined !! They would get an A.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 11:41:28 GMT -5
Would you please change your font? I have to copy it, paste it into Microsoft Word, and change it to something like times new roman at a more comfortable 12 points rather than 6.5 as it comes to Word, in order to read it.
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Post by MF on Dec 13, 2015 11:53:31 GMT -5
Would you please change your font? I have to copy it, paste it into Microsoft Word, and change it to something like times new roman at a more comfortable 12 points rather than 6.5 as it comes to Word, in order to read it. Swoooooooooooosh..........lol..lol..lol.. I will try,,,,,,times new roman,,,, In my best Johnny Carson voice,,,,,, I did not know thst,,,, |
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 12:17:24 GMT -5
Much better. Thanks.
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Post by pastafari on Dec 13, 2015 12:46:00 GMT -5
Rally thinks that only illegal things can be wrong. Shocker.
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Post by pastafari on Dec 13, 2015 12:51:53 GMT -5
Funny how you call taxes "theft", but you don't apply the same logic to the businesses who expect to get the benefit of operating here without paying for the privilege. NOT paying taxes is theft.
Again, how devoid of thought you are, to ignore the possibility that Wal-mart can be harmful, immoral, and unamerican without breaking the law.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 13, 2015 13:44:48 GMT -5
He needs a change in meds.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 15:00:34 GMT -5
"Funny how you call taxes "theft", but you don't apply the same logic to the businesses who expect to get the benefit of operating here without paying for the privilege. NOT paying taxes is theft.
"
Benefit? What benefit is that? Oh, it is all the jobs that it provides to employees, the services or goods that it offers to the public, etc. A company is a legal fiction, not a person, and owes nothing. There is no theft, as all the PEOPLE that make up the company pay taxes. They are the only entities that need to pay taxes to run the country, we need not, and should not, tax businesses.
"Again, how devoid of thought you are, to ignore the possibility that Wal-mart can be harmful, immoral, and unamerican without breaking the law."
Passing a law that harms something like a company or a person, and expecting them not to try to avoid that harm, and labeling them unpatriotic or immoral for attempting to avoid the harm, is... illogical. Taxes harm businesses. We only get about 9% of our revenue from the corporate income tax, because all the corporations have either gone out of business by being rendered uncompetitive with foreign businesses, or have left the USA in order to not suffer bankruptcy. Again, this is ALL THE GOV'T'S FAULT. It doesn't take an Einstein to see how to fix it, and it is "don't steal from people" which is said another way, "repeal all the income taxes."
OBTW, what the companies do cannot be "stealing" because nobody is forced to buy their stuff. Don't want to buy this or that, don't, and they don't get your money. Simple. Want to stop paying everybody? Get some livestock, go back to agrarianism, don't trade with anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 15:58:41 GMT -5
If taxes were 0%, Wal-Mart would still be a drain on the economy.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 16:52:56 GMT -5
If taxes were 0%, Wal-Mart would still be a drain on the economy. That makes no sense at all. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 17:03:33 GMT -5
Read the OP. Wal-Mart is a major drag on the economy. An awful business that exploits the worst parts of capitalism leaving a trail of poverty in its wake in order to make one family richer than most of the rest of the world combined.
It's Econ 101, rally.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 13, 2015 17:50:43 GMT -5
Apparently he's happy with his tax dollars subsidizing Wally's profits. I'm not surprised, he's a sycophant to anyone wealthy. Poor frightened harlot.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 20:12:05 GMT -5
Read the OP. Wal-Mart is a major drag on the economy. An awful business that exploits the worst parts of capitalism leaving a trail of poverty in its wake in order to make one family richer than most of the rest of the world combined. It's Econ 101, rally. No, this is a total red herring. Walmart does not have a trade deficit with China, the USA has a trade deficit with China. The root cause is US tax policy, and if Walmart did not sell those Chinese goods, it would be Target or Sears or K-mart or whoever. Walmart is just someone's easy target. Fix the root cause by eliminating the income taxes, and this whole sad situation will be turned completely around. Walmart will then be selling a lot of US built goods, and fewer Chinese built goods, and we will all have the money to buy them due to the jobs created by the factories building the US goods right here. |
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Post by pastafari on Dec 13, 2015 21:13:05 GMT -5
Go build a wal-mart in the middle of Syria and let me know how easy it is. How about a reliable electrical grid? How about police protection? How about paved roads on which to transport your goods? Etc. etc. etc. Those things cost money, and Wal-Mart and any other company that enjoys those benefits should be paying for it. Expecting these benefits and not paying for them is theft.
Bullshit. If the business is an entity that does things under it's own name (not the name of the owner), then it is not a "fiction" and it does owe for the privileges of which it avails itself.
No, a company referring to paying it's fair share as some sort of random and unexpected "harm", as opposed to an expected expense, is illogical.
Businesses that don't factor in paying for the things they use harm themselves.
They're stealing by not paying for the resources they use. Show me a business that paved it's own roads to it's store and is completely off the grid (power and internet) and provides it's own security from all threats foreign and domestic, and MAYBE I'll show you a business that deserves to pay less in taxes.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 21:28:58 GMT -5
Read the OP. Wal-Mart is a major drag on the economy. An awful business that exploits the worst parts of capitalism leaving a trail of poverty in its wake in order to make one family richer than most of the rest of the world combined. It's Econ 101, rally. No, this is a total red herring. Walmart does not have a trade deficit with China, the USA has a trade deficit with China. The root cause is US tax policy, and if Walmart did not sell those Chinese goods, it would be Target or Sears or K-mart or whoever. Walmart is just someone's easy target. Fix the root cause by eliminating the income taxes, and this whole sad situation will be turned completely around. Walmart will then be selling a lot of US built goods, and fewer Chinese built goods, and we will all have the money to buy them due to the jobs created by the factories building the US goods right here. Are you serious right now? Do you actually believe the bullshit your spitting up? No. That's not how the real world works. At all. Especially the world of greedy summbitches who will do every ethically repugnant thing they can to maximize profits (like Wal-Mart). US-made goods will never be cheaper than what they make in China under their slave-like labor conditions; even with the costs of transportation. If eliminating the income tax lowers the cost of a product by %25 or what have you (it won't, by the way; people are still going to charge whatever they can to maximize profits), then there still needs to be another significant chunk of the item's cost taken out to make it comparable to cheap Chinese shit. Wal-Mart is built completely around it's cheap products. If income taxes go to zero overnight, it doesn't mean they're going to just start selling US goods out of the goodness of their hearts. And besides, none of this nonsense you've talked about so far in this thread even starts to comment on the original topic that is Wal-Mart is a significant drain on the US economy. It's a bad business that has cost us a lot of jobs across the country just so some very few people can make ridiculous amounts of money. This isn't us teaming up on the "Big Bad Wolf Business," there are plenty of big businesses out there that know how to treat their employees, customers, and their own country's economy a lot better than the way that Arkansas shit-hole does. |
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 13, 2015 22:58:45 GMT -5
If you are determined to hate Walmart, go ahead and hate Walmart, but they're not doing anything wrong. Yes, US built goods with minimal transportation costs will enable the USA to beat the Chinese. They make some cheap stuff, but we're not out of that realm either, and can automate better than anybody. They may use 1000 people to put together iPhones (you've seen pictures of the huge rooms full of tables in a gridwork at which hundreds of people stand and put together iPhones) but we will have specialized manufacturing machines in equally huge numbers that will spit out iPhones at a rate of maybe 5 or 10 for every one that the humans in China can produce. They'll produce less scrap, too. Jobs in those factories won't be production, but will be tending the machines, installing the machines, adjusting the machines, repairing the machines, supplying the machines with raw materials, etc. etc. But it'll only take maybe 1 guy to keep track of 20 machines for raw materials, 1 guy to keep 100 machines in adjustment, 1 guy to repair breakdowns that occur in 200 machines (they'll be very reliable), etc. There will be jobs, just not the hoards that used to work in factories. And because of that, the US labor costs will be _less_ than the Chinese labor costs once the income taxes are taken out of the equation. BTW, it is not the huge mountain you think it is - the Chinese workers are getting fed up as we speak, they are demanding better everything, and SOME manufacturing is ALREADY moving back to the USA because of this. Not much, but some. If the income taxes were repealed, the movement back to the US by factories seeking a more advantageous profitability atmosphere will be akin to the water over Niagara Falls. As for the erroneous whine that ALWAYS occurs that the big bad corps will keep prices just what they were in order to maximize profits, it just shows that you don't know how to maximize profits. You don't maximize profits by raising the prices, otherwise a can of Coke would cost $30 and Coca Cola would be fabulously more wealthy than they already are. No, I get cans of coke for $3.99 for a 12-pack, and that is because they can sell me 9 12-packs at a time, because 1) I can afford 'em, and 2) they're cheaper than the 12-packs of Pepsi on the day I buy 'em. Food Lion puts a sale on Coke products, then Pepsi products, then switches back and forth, and since I like 'em both, I buy whichever one is on sale. If Coke or Pepsi thought that they could make more money by keeping their 12-pack at $5.99, they wouldn't, because they wouldn't sell to me, and most likely a whale of a lot of other people. The fizzie-drink company with the higher price will sell less product, and even tho they are making 20 cents per can more at the higher prices, they're selling fewer cans, so multiplying 20 cents by 12 cans and 100 less 12-packs that day, they're going to LOSE $240 to the other fizzie-drink company because people will be buying the cheaper 12-packs. See how it works? BTW, there's nothing "ethically repugnant" about maximizing profits, that is exactly how the free market enterprise is supposed to work, and in the case of a corporation, not doing so is an ethical betrayal of the stockholders that bought the company's stock with the expectation that the top managers would do everything in their power to increase the value of the stock that they just bought. Its expected. Not doing so on purpose is a good reason to get fired. Its how business works. All that includes as a by-product the efforts they put into paying as little for labor as they possibly can. ALL businesses do that, its just that in lots of fields like engineering, law, medicine, etc. there are too few people to leverage with a low wage, as there's always some other business willing to pay a higher wage that will grab up the guy you were trying to get to work for you for peanuts. Walmart can get away with it because there are so few lo-tech jobs and the people the hire are lo-tech in their skills. If they had a Cisco network certification, Walmart would have to probably pay 'em $80K to keep their networks working, but if they don't know much beyond being trainable to run a cash register and stock shelves, they're vulnerable to having 5 - 10 other people that are just as hirable that will work for an equal or lower wage. That's supply and demand in the retail labor world. BTW, the number of lo-tech jobs would boom to Biblical proportions if we abolished the income taxes, because all those factories that were turning out automation-produced iPhones would also have jobs that people who can learn cash registers and stocking shelves could do. Maybe driving a lift truck to transport 1000's of iPhone cases from the loading dock to the area of production, maybe something else. But there would be so many jobs of this nature after a couple years of factory construction, that the we'd be scraping the bottom of the barrel to find people to do them. And that's when the upward wage spiral would really begin, as one business tries to hire workers away from another business, because there's no one left in society that can be talked out of staying home with the kids or staying retired, etc. You have to really stop and think how all this would come together under a no-business-income-tax environment, and actually try to figure out how it would work. I've been doing that for about 7 years, aided by reading a lot of the writings of those that have already figured it out. Read all about it, start here: fairtax.org/about/resource-libraryAnd there's lots, lots, lots more. For a simple 131 page tax system, it has a whale of a lot of hidden benefits that really have to be thought about a lot to see the real advantages. |
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 14, 2015 0:29:20 GMT -5
Some Econ 101 for 'ya...  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 9:35:57 GMT -5
Yes, they are. The fact you can't see this just goes to show you how ignorant about economics and capitalism you truly are. Wal-Mart is the type of industry Adam Smith warned us about. The father of capitalism railed against overgrown businesses like this as much as he ranted against govts interfering with laissez-faire. You need to re-read your Wealth of Nations, son.
Good for them. And that's how it should be done. It's bad for both the Chinese and our own economies that we rely on their manufacturing and they rely on our hapless consumerism. But your easily disproven pie-in-the-sky taxation method isn't going to do it. Simple math refutes the Fantasy Tax as I've shown you multiple times over the years: it is regressive; it doesn't come close to replacing income tax receipts; and it is designed solely to starve the govt of funds (why else would the govt be required to pay a FT on goods and services when private businesses don't? Doesn't make a lick of sense).
Yes, there is. You don't know what "ethics" means. Ethics is the competition of morals. And the top-notch moral for industry is not to simply make a profit, it is to provide a quality good/service to the public that feeds your company's revenue; again, you need to read Smith, you obviously don't know what capitalism is all about. If maximizing profits was the only thing that mattered, then you should be advocating for the US to return to labor standards back to the 1800s: child labor; 80 hour work weeks; slave wages; no safety standards; etc etc etc. Getting rid of all of those things hurt the bottom line, rally. By your argument, there would be nothing "ethically repugnant" about a 4 year old who has to work in a textile mill in order to help the family afford to survive who gets crushed to death by shoddy equipment.
And by the way, the crap you're spewing about the retail business is baloney. There was a time when people could actually make a living off of working in retail; then "trickle down" economics happened and we've seen the minimum wage being left in the dust by the cost of living around it. Want to reduce govt expenditures on social program? Make a living wage a federal standard. Sure, the Waltons may lose a couple billion, but they can spare it (they can spare it about a hundred times over in fact...). The reason places like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and all the other places filled with minimum wage workers are generally shit-holes is because there is no incentive to take pride in a job that treats you like crap and doesn't even pay you enough to live.
Oh, and increasing the minimum wage helps local economies in ways that eliminating the income tax can't even dream of. You'll effectively double the spending power of the biggest % of consumers who are most likely to spend all of their income. Eliminating the income tax will only really benefit higher wage earners who are more likely to just put it in banks or invest it where it won't help the local economy.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 14, 2015 9:44:57 GMT -5
"Go build a wal-mart in the middle of Syria and let me know how easy it is. How about a reliable electrical grid? How about police protection? How about paved roads on which to transport your goods? Etc. etc. etc. Those things cost money, and Wal-Mart and any other company that enjoys those benefits should be paying for it. Expecting these benefits and not paying for them is theft.
"
There you guys go again, trying to somehow argue that public works somehow benefits companies more than the rest of us. They don't. In fact, they don't benefit companies at all, because companies are a legal fiction, they do not really exist. What is benefitted are the PEOPLE that work in the companies, as well as the people that don't work in the companies. IOW, everybody. The only proper place to obtain taxes is from people. Attacking corporations with taxes is simply cowardly, corrupt political action, convincing people that they are not getting taxed because the companies are, but don't realize that by taxing companies, the US Gov't is causing them FAR more damage than they would by taxing them directly. That is, when the gov't taxes companies, the companies don't pay it. No company ever pays any taxes. No company has ever paid any taxes. Companies / businesses only COLLECT taxes, and do so by raising the prices of the goods they produce or services they render, lowering the wages of those that they employ, and reduce stock dividends, all in order to gather the money to send to Washington for the taxes. And when the taxes force the companies to raise their prices higher than those of foreign imports, those companies go out of business, bankrupt, because of the taxes. We've lost 60,000 factories and 5 million jobs since the year 2000, and does anyone think that having 22% of the price of anything they produce being composed of income tax expense has nothing to do with it? And note that in each case, customer, employee, and stockholder, a PERSON is paying the tax indirectly by suffering losses at the hands of the companies, who HAVE to do this because these people are the only sources of their money or are the only places where they can cut costs to obtain money to pay the taxes with the revenues that they are getting from their business activities. But in EVERY CASE, PEOPLE are the source of the money that pay corporate taxes, and they are overwhelmingly US, the middle class.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 14, 2015 9:46:46 GMT -5
"It is regressive"
Explain how a tax that doesn't tax the poor a penny is regressive.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 14, 2015 9:52:15 GMT -5
"Yes, there is. You don't know what "ethics" means. Ethics is the competition of morals"
Such a thing cannot survive amongst the rest of the world that simply has a laser-focus on maximizing the bottom line for the benefit of their stockholders. If you try, you just end up with a bankrupt company, which harms everyone involved.
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