Keeping it real for drone warriors

[No. 1 son]

Instead of piping in the Marine marching song, to make it more real maybe it should include some piped in smell of burning flesh, and some sprayed blood to coat the windscreen at periodic moments. A few screams from the wedding party would also help to give them something to talk about in the lounge.

[bobathon]

Did they ever create that “medal” for hese brave heroes? Mouse button with oak clusters or some such.

[minx]

I dunno guys. Being a drone operator is not a fun job or an easy one. Unlike their counterparts in a plane, they get to see the carnage up close. It can't be a really fun job - imagine sitting in a dark room for 12 hours looking at a video screen and trying to determine if the guy you're looking at is one of the good guys or not. Then imagine launching the drone and watching him disappear and knowing that you killed him, and it's time to send the drone to find the next person. I would imagine it takes a great psychological toll on a person, as it's a very impersonal form of warfare - that dude isn't shooting at you or a direct threat to you, but you killed him nonetheless. Doesn't matter if he was a bad guy or not - I suspect it feels a lot like cheating or an unfair fight.

Add to that that most of the people who aren't in there with you have no clue as to how stressful this job is, or how difficult it can be to determine who is who off of grainy footage. I don't begrudge these guys getting any type of upgraded equipment if it makes their job a little easier to do. I have to say that if I were a soldier and had to kill someone, I'd rather be able to see them, rather than pick someone off a video screen and hope I have the right dude.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

We've been training and desensitizing people since childhood for that job for a few decades now.

[No. 1 son]

Just keep in mind that what the DOD has or does is next years county poleece dept's new toy.

[bobathon]

Have we not been assured that they always know exactly what the target is, and they’ve all been vetted? 100% perfect, or we wouldn’t even try, right? Unless now we also go for families, like the War Criminal in Chief wants.

Also, Himmler was very concerned about that mental toll for his military killers of Jews. Just saying, I am not terribly persuaded to pity someone who is pointing and clicking people to death.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Don't think that's what the OP was getting at or going for anyway.

[No. 1 son]

It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

[minx]

Out of curiosity Bob, are you more a fan of a soldier going in and shooting all the civilians himself by mistake instead?

While I'm not a fan of drone warfare, keep in mind that it was developed in an effort to keep the soldiers on the ground safe. And I'm assuming you're being sarcastic in saying that these men and women are always 100% sure of their target.

Killing another human, whether in person or remotely is something that most people find traumatic. I imagine the soldiers who operate these drones are probably doubly traumatized - once by the actual killing, and then again by the public (and I imagine other soldiers as well) who belittle them by saying all they do is point and click to kill someone, especially if that someone turns out to be the wrong target.

[No. 1 son]

Instead of debating whether to shoot, gas, bomb, or kill them with "rebel freedom fighters", maybe we need to focus not on the methodology but the mission. Can anyone explain what we're doing in Iraq, Asscrackistan, Syria, Yemen, or any of the other places we're doo dad deep in? There's good indications we're trying to uproot Iran, Venezuela, Cuba (again), and who knows how many others. Here's what Eric Prince has to say about it. Mercenaries ( with him leading them, of course). Sweet no accounting problems (DOD budget, you know THAT never gets looked at). No FOIA problems, no need for press coverage, no home boy soldiers in jeopardy, self funding with opium sales, and totally exempt from war crimes that may be committed. Do you get the feeling Mr Prince is a CYA asset? Separating the Merikan public from the realities of our actions seems to be evolving to a new level.

[bobathon]

I’m not a fan of killing. And yes, sarcasm aimed at mocking how drones are supposed to be such a clean way of killing. Not necessarily waging war, because we use killing the defendant instead of trials, sometimes. So yeah, yay for killing people with secret justifications.

That being said, I understand “they knew what they signed up for”.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Jul 13, 2018 12:08:23 GMT -5 No. 1 son said:

Instead of debating whether to shoot, gas, bomb, or kill them with "rebel freedom fighters", maybe we need to focus not on the methodology but the mission. Can anyone explain what we're doing in Iraq, Asscrackistan, Syria, Yemen, or any of the other places we're doo dad deep in? There's good indications we're trying to uproot Iran, Venezuela, Cuba (again), and who knows how many others. Here's what Eric Prince has to say about it. Mercenaries ( with him leading them, of course). Sweet no accounting problems (DOD budget, you know THAT never gets looked at). No FOIA problems, no need for press coverage, no home boy soldiers in jeopardy, self funding with opium sales, and totally exempt from war crimes that may be committed. Do you get the feeling Mr Prince is a CYA asset? Separating the Merikan public from the realities of our actions seems to be evolving to a new level.

Isn't he connected to the venerable Secretary Of AntiPublicEducation?

[minx]

Destabilizing other countries. Hasn't that been our motto since God Only Knows When?

When I was younger, I never thought I'd say this, but we need to bring back the draft. For both genders, and no exceptions unless you're pregnant or have a child under the age of five that you are the sole caregiver for. Maybe if people and their families had more on the line, they'd be a little more aware of foreign policy and start to question why we need all this military shit.

[bobathon]

But then we mght be less prone to police actions. Oops, I mean peacekeeping. Oops, I mean war.

[No. 1 son]

Jul 13, 2018 13:45:17 GMT -5 minx said:

When I was younger, I never thought I'd say this, but we need to bring back the draft. For both genders, and no exceptions unless you're pregnant or have a child under the age of five that you are the sole caregiver for. Maybe if people and their families had more on the line, they'd be a little more aware of foreign policy and start to question why we need all this military shit.

Totally agree. Get young people out of their ruts, away from ingrained problems, get some training and a sense of belonging to something bigger than you. See how the other half lives. Also, no more of this thank you for service crap, you owe the rest of us a little of your time.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Jul 13, 2018 13:45:17 GMT -5 minx said:

Destabilizing other countries. Hasn't that been our motto since God Only Knows When?

When I was younger, I never thought I'd say this, but we need to bring back the draft. For both genders, and no exceptions unless you're pregnant or have a child under the age of five that you are the sole caregiver for. Maybe if people and their families had more on the line, they'd be a little more aware of foreign policy and start to question why we need all this military shit.

What about for bone spurs? Asking for a friend.

[minx]

Your ass might not be on the front line, but I'm sure there are lots of jobs out there that don't require you to walk - drone operator for one....

We can save the medical deferments for people who are actually disabled that way.

[bobathon]

Why would we start that now?

[rally2xs]

Jul 13, 2018 13:45:17 GMT -5 minx said:

Destabilizing other countries. Hasn't that been our motto since God Only Knows When?

Well, no. Not always. We often supported vile dictators because, they COULD stabalize those regions. We once supported the Shah of Iran. We once supported Saddam Hussein. We supported them because they could keep their bad people in line, and showing up for work every day rather than wasting time killing each other. The middle east only has bad guys. Some of 'em are Sunni bad guys, and others are Shiite bad guys. But they're all bad guys, and can't agree on which end of the egg to open and will kill each other over it or anything else that has more than one answer. Vile dictators simply kill both sides equally, but simply for trying to kill each other. It suppressed killing each other, which is what we wanted, because we wanted 'em to show up for work and drill for oil, build pipelines for oil, load oil onto tanker ships, and pilot those ships to New Orleans or Houston or somesuch.

When I was younger, I never thought I'd say this, but we need to bring back the draft.

For the good of the military, no. I've seen the military when there was a draft when I was in it, and I've seen the military when there is only the volunteers, as in my 2 trips to Iraq. The military that is volunteers is waaaaay better than the military with draftees. Yes, it would be good to have everyone (not just guys, BTW) to be part of an armed force organization, and maybe we should create one for them just to give them the experience (hey, how about the militia - send 'em to the southern border, send them to the south side of Chicago, get them to shoot the bad guys) but not in the USA, USAF, US Marines, US Navy, US Coast Guard. Those organizations don't deserve the resulting chaos that conscripts bring with them.

For both genders, and no exceptions unless you're pregnant or have a child under the age of five that you are the sole caregiver for.

Would probably cut down on abortion, eh? A real reason not to kill the baby... <G>

Maybe if people and their families had more on the line, they'd be a little more aware of foreign policy and start to question why we need all this military shit.

If we don't have all this military shit, which protects much of the free world, then who will do it? The various countries that we are protecting with the egregious defense department budget would then get nervous, and start raising armies, air forces, navies, etc. all their own, and then what happens? You guessed it, they find a reason to use those armies and navies and so forth, and we get a for-real WW3, probably sans nukes but maybe not, and fighting all over the place, probably including Europe again, and almost certainly SE Asia again, as well as the middle east which only God could keep from fighting but he's apparently not so inclined.