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Post by bobathon on Dec 29, 2018 17:40:47 GMT -5
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Post by minx on Dec 30, 2018 13:16:26 GMT -5
Why it's almost as if the world markets started looking for alternate suppliers, and found out that other countries also had agricultural land and could grow crops and raise livestock.
It would be funny if our economy didn't depend so much on agricultural exports.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 30, 2018 21:20:37 GMT -5
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 31, 2018 7:05:16 GMT -5
Yeah, the world just magically, all of a sudden, planted millions of tons of soy beans last spring, in anticipation of the Chinese tariffs, and now these millions of tons of soy beans, that had no market until the Chinese refused US soy beans, are available for filling bellies in China. Nonsense. What's going to happen is that the Chinese are going to buy soy beans from someone else, but that someone else already had a market somewhere else, and now those living in somewhere else are hungry. What is somewhere else going to do? They're going to buy US soy beans. Duh. www.agweb.com/article/tariff-loophole-how-us-soybeans-might-be-getting-to-china/ |
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Post by bobathon on Dec 31, 2018 7:41:06 GMT -5
Dude, the point you attempt to distract from is, if you aren't at the table negotiating, your desires will be left out of the agreement. There isn't going to be some NEW deal from Trump, if we want in on this we're going to have to accept the deal already made without us. And if we don't, we get the continued tariffs levied on our goods. Trump had an opportunity to ensure American trade interests were represented in a *major* trade treaty, and he pulled out instead. And now, around the Pacific, we are at a Trump-imposed trade disadvantage.
This is the isolationism you voted for. There are prices to be paid.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 31, 2018 8:26:31 GMT -5
"There isn't going to be some NEW deal from Trump, if we want in on this we're going to have to accept the deal already made without us."
Wrong on both points.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 31, 2018 8:28:23 GMT -5
The TPP was just an agreement to cart money out of the USA by the carload. Trump quite rightly got us the H out of it. He will negotiate deals with individual countries that will be advantageous for both parties for each country. Stay tuned.
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Post by minx on Dec 31, 2018 9:51:44 GMT -5
Try to follow along here Rally.
You're a farmer in a foreign country. You see a political campaign where one of the major competitors says they're going to pull out of a major trade agreement. Of course you do nothing, because the dude hasn't even been elected yet.
He gets elected, and sure enough his first act is to pull out of said major agreement. Now, do you sit and watch your tomatoes grow, or do you plow them under and plant soybeans and wheat?
I'm no farmer, but I suspect you can rotate and plant a soybean crop pretty damn quickly and have a nice harvest two years later.
Now, you like soybeans and eat them breakfast, lunch and dinner.
You're in a foreign country and see a political campaign where one of the major competitors says they're going to put tariffs on imports from your country. No big deal.
Dude gets elected, and said tariffs go into place. In retaliation, your country puts tariffs on soybeans. Holy crap! Soybean prices are through the roof! What do you do?
Well, you're stuck for this year - you bought a CSA and have a contract. But wait - another country is making soybeans, and they're closer than the first country, so shipping is cheaper. Plus their soybeans are just as tasty, and won't be more expensive. Woo!
When prices go up, people (and countries) look for alternatives that are cheaper. As long as those alternatives are affordable and easy to get, they stay with the alternatives. It's called the law of supply and demand, and is basic economics.
Trump has made our agricultural exports too expensive for the global market, and other countries have stepped up to fill in that void. We're not the only country who knows how to grow shit, and has a lot of agricultural land you know. All these tariffs have done so far is to piss off the Chinese - they're one of the major importers of our grain and livestock production, and I don't see them rushing back to us next year begging for forgiveness.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 31, 2018 10:19:58 GMT -5
Why would I extend the benefit of the doubt to a demonstrably bad faith negotiator? He doesn't even tell the truth to his allies.
PS Your religion is betraying you.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 31, 2018 12:54:31 GMT -5
Why would I extend the benefit of the doubt to a demonstrably bad faith negotiator? He doesn't even tell the truth to his allies. PS Your religion is betraying you. Bad faith negotiator? Since when has he not done what he says he was going to do, or at least tried mightly to accomplish it? He says to NK that if they keep it up, he will institute sanctions. They did and he did. He tells Assad not to use chemical weapons or else, Assad did, and Trump "cruise missiled" him big-time. Etc. He said he would build a wall on our southern border. He's trying as hard as he can. He said Mexico would pay for it. He got a lot of favor out of the new agreement that replaced NAFTA, so maybe that counts. If it doesn't, he could always do something like taxing remittances to Mexico, and intercept that $$$ that the illegal aliens are sending back to it and tax it. "Mexicans sent home $26.1 billion from January to November 2017" That's 11 months, so presumably the 12th month makes 28.5 Billion, although December contains Christmas so maybe there would be a bonus there. Tax that at 17.5% and you get $5 Billion per year, indefinitely, or if you want to take it easy, tax at 3%, and do it over 20-something years. I'm for that, the Mexicans should build the wall... Trump knows his way around money, and has done outstanding things for the USA in terms of making the economy roar. |
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 31, 2018 12:57:18 GMT -5
Try to follow along here Rally. You're a farmer in a foreign country. You see a political campaign where one of the major competitors says they're going to pull out of a major trade agreement. Of course you do nothing, because the dude hasn't even been elected yet. He gets elected, and sure enough his first act is to pull out of said major agreement. Now, do you sit and watch your tomatoes grow, or do you plow them under and plant soybeans and wheat? I'm no farmer, but I suspect you can rotate and plant a soybean crop pretty damn quickly and have a nice harvest two years later. Now, you like soybeans and eat them breakfast, lunch and dinner. You're in a foreign country and see a political campaign where one of the major competitors says they're going to put tariffs on imports from your country. No big deal. Dude gets elected, and said tariffs go into place. In retaliation, your country puts tariffs on soybeans. Holy crap! Soybean prices are through the roof! What do you do? Well, you're stuck for this year - you bought a CSA and have a contract. But wait - another country is making soybeans, and they're closer than the first country, so shipping is cheaper. Plus their soybeans are just as tasty, and won't be more expensive. Woo! When prices go up, people (and countries) look for alternatives that are cheaper. As long as those alternatives are affordable and easy to get, they stay with the alternatives. It's called the law of supply and demand, and is basic economics. Trump has made our agricultural exports too expensive for the global market, and other countries have stepped up to fill in that void. We're not the only country who knows how to grow shit, and has a lot of agricultural land you know. All these tariffs have done so far is to piss off the Chinese - they're one of the major importers of our grain and livestock production, and I don't see them rushing back to us next year begging for forgiveness. And you'd be dumb as a box of rocks as a farmer to bet against Trump. The Chinese are buying US soy beans again. (Told ya' so...) www.cnn.com/2018/12/17/politics/trump-farmer-aid-tariffs/index.html |
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Post by bobathon on Dec 31, 2018 14:00:28 GMT -5
He told McConnell that he'd sign the CR. Once it was passed by the Senate, UNANIMOUSLY, he insisted the CR get WALL added. There's your bad faith negotiation.
Bad faith negotiator does not get the benefit of the doubt.
PS DPRK has no results yet, chump. Latest I saw is WE have to pull our weapons out first before Kim does anything. As predicted, he played Trump. Did not read the rest, because I can, as I just did, show that he's a bad faith negotiator, so no benefit of the doubt.
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Post by rally2xs on Dec 31, 2018 14:08:38 GMT -5
He told McConnell that he'd sign the CR. Once it was passed by the Senate, UNANIMOUSLY, he insisted the CR get WALL added. There's your bad faith negotiation. Bad faith negotiator does not get the benefit of the doubt. PS DPRK has no results yet, chump. Latest I saw is WE have to pull our weapons out first before Kim does anything. As predicted, he played Trump. Did not read the rest, because I can, as I just did, show that he's a bad faith negotiator, so no benefit of the doubt. The 1st one was politics. He miscalculated the reaction of his base, and when it was made clear to him that 2020 would be a pipe dream if he caved on the wall yet again, he got some balls, uncharacteristic for most Republicans, and did the right thing by insisting on the wall. There have been good results for the DPRK so far. No nuke tests. No rockets flying over Japan, our ally. These things take time. I think we'll get to a treaty eventually, but if we don't, I'm going to give DJT points for getting farther than any other President has so far. Hey, previous presidents didn't really even try. O didn't try. GWB didn't try. BC didn't try. GHWB didn't try. They may have spoken harsh language at times, but... no sanctions that I remember, no results, etc. BC even ended up giving them nuke tech, possibly a treasonous act had we only had Congress declare war on them. Oh, wait, technically we are still at war with them... but undeclared, so... no opportunity to hang BC, a pity. But he deserves hanging... |
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Post by minx on Dec 31, 2018 14:42:00 GMT -5
Soybean growers have been hit especially hard. China, their biggest foreign market, stopped buying US soybeans in July in retaliation for new American tariffs. But China placed a massive new order last week, as part of a temporary trade truce between the two countries. Still, it won't make up for the business that soybean farmers lost this year due to the trade war. The Farm Bureau has estimated that exports to China are down 97% and prices reached historic lows this summer. Many farmers had to put their soybeans in storage after harvesting them this fall. There is a temporary truce between the two countries at the moment, so China went ahead and placed a soybean order. It's not enough to cover the losses that American farmers were hit by this past year, and it's only one order while the tariff increases are on hold. If you knew that the price of gas was going to go up substantially in 90 days, and had the money and storage space to get some cheaply now, wouldn't you stock up too? And if you knew that Wawa's prices were going to be really, really high for the foreseeable future, would you just suck it up and stay with Wawa, or would you start checking out prices at other gas stations? Cause that's exactly what's happening here. Trump agreed to hold off on a price increase. China is taking advantage by grabbing some cheap soybeans, but they're checking other countries to find a more stable supplier. All we can do is hope that they can't find one, but at the same time, I'm not holding my breath either. However, I did a quick search to find out how one goes about getting a subsidy, and found this interesting article from the Heritage Foundation instead www.heritage.org/agriculture/report/what-you-should-know-about-who-receives-farm-subsidiesSo perhaps we should just cancel any remaining payments - clearly they don't need them.... |
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