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Post by minx on Jun 28, 2019 9:43:13 GMT -5
www.fredericksburg.com/news/mwh-suspends-policy-of-suing-patients-following-ama-study/article_526d34d5-e374-545f-8568-0c66ba0734e5.htmlAlthough I probably shouldn't dance yet. They're reviewing their practices (good), suspending all collections right now (again good), but are looking into all options (bad). I will be the first to say that I'm not an expert in non-profit tax law, nor am I an expert in contract law, so I don't know what requirements MWH or other hospitals are expected to meet in terms of trying to collect money. I do know that I was trying to help a friend whose daughter was falling apart due to a lot of turmoil in their house at the time. Daughter was covered under friend's crappy work policy with a super high deductible, and they didn't have any money. Every therapist I called said the same thing - she had insurance, and since they participated with the insurance, they couldn't waive co-pays because the insurance company could then accuse them of price inflation. And from my time spent working at BC/BS in the 80s, I do know that part is true. So MWH and other hospitals are probably required to make a good faith effort to try and get payment on outstanding bills. The question is, what is good faith? And the second question is how much effort should they make, and where should the cut off be? For example, it would be reprehensible for them to go after John for a $1000 balance on an ER visit - we all know he doesn't have that type of money. OTOH, they should totally go after me for the same bill on my ER visit - I definitely have the money to pay How do they tell the difference though, especially if both of us do not return phone calls or respond to letters and bills? My worry is that rather than doing collections in house as they do now, they'll send it to an outside agency so it won't be as clear and it will be harder to see how many people they sue. I think they should give you a simple to complete form when you leave the hospital explaining how to apply for a reduction in your bill. I think that would at least be a start, as too many people who end up in court are there because they didn't know they could qualify for some sort of assistance.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 28, 2019 13:54:30 GMT -5
I was glad to see that under intense pressure to do the right thing, they are "considering" doing the right thing.
They used to have a way to apply for charity, either in whole or in part, for the hospital bills. It was based on how much they had in that fund, so even if you qualified, the fund being dry meant your dick was short, too. I don't think the ER did it at all, as it was run by Allied Physicians or some shit, iow, not medicorp or mwh and they had collection attorneys on staff.
At some point, as was the case with us in 07 or thereabouts, we filed TitsUp#7 because not only was the hospital bill at mwh over 100 grand, but I was caring for her and two toddlers for over a year without any help financially or otherwise, so racked up another 60 gees between Platinum credit cards buying food, medicines, and other bills, not in that order.
America, the land of special rights.
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Finally!
Jun 28, 2019 14:35:18 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Jun 28, 2019 14:35:18 GMT -5
At least you weren't enslaved by some common humanity and decency. ENSLAVED, I TELLS YA!
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Finally!
Jun 28, 2019 15:07:29 GMT -5
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 28, 2019 15:07:29 GMT -5
I suppose I should be glad we not only have the RIGHT, but also the RESPONSIBILITY, to suffer and die in financial ruin so that people like Mitt can continue to profit, quite handsomely in fact, on the average guy's misfortune en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HCA_Healthcare (see: Bain Capital) . To be sure, he's not the only one, but he's the one that says I just want "free stuff". Meanwhile, Mitts wife has MS. She has the best doctors money can buy, therapy horses, and a husband that jokes "which one?" when someone asks him about his house. Maybe I just haven't worked hard enough or something.
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Post by minx on Jun 28, 2019 16:51:55 GMT -5
My friend (the one I sat in the ER with) has been in VCU since Wednesday morning - they've determined that she has some sort of bacterial infection, so she's on IV antibiotics until they figure out exactly what it is. Two blood cultures every day, not to mention the IVs, and other tests and shit.
She's already been to court, so the only option she has is to hope they're kind and don't throw her in jail for unpaid bills.
Meanwhile, others go without any treatment or die because they simply don't have access to a doctor at all. There are hundreds of areas in the country where the nearest doctor is over 100 miles away, forget about hospitals.
But our health care system is the best in the world, doncha know? Especially if you're rich.
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Finally!
Jun 28, 2019 17:02:12 GMT -5
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 28, 2019 17:02:12 GMT -5
Especially if you never get sick.
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Post by minx on Jun 29, 2019 8:35:13 GMT -5
No John, you can get sick with a minor correctable condition. So breaking a bone or having the flu is acceptable, cause you get it fixed right quick because you have the bucks to not have to worry about putting things off, you have the luxury of living in an area with good doctors, and the ultimate luxury - a job that allows you the time off to do so.
Then you go around bragging to your poor friends about how quickly you were taken care of, along with the skill of your surgeon. But of course you also whine about the 'high prices' because you had to shell out $400 for the entire thing.
I broke my arm about 15 years ago - completely separated my hand from the rest of my arm. Being fortunate, I have BC/BS from the feds, so I was whisked to the ER at Fauquier, loaded up with drugs and x-rayed (that itself is not unusual - almost any ER will do that). I saw an ortho in the ER who tried to set my arm. Went home, came back on Monday to the ortho, who scheduled surgery.
Total cost of all this - I have no idea - I was whacked out on drugs. Up until PT though, my copay was under $1K for everything. And I needed 6 weeks off (it was my right hand, and the job required a lot of filling out forms by hand) BUT, my husband makes enough that we could afford the hit (all of it was LWOP), because we had savings.
In contrast, my daughter's friend fell asleep on the way home from her second job and wrecked her bike. Broken ribs (probably a concession despite having on a full helmet), broken collarbone and lots of scratches and bruises. She's still on her dad's insurance, but it's total crap. Even though she too was supposed to follow up with an ortho the next day to schedule surgery, she didn't. Had to find out whether she could get time off of work, and also had to figure out where to get the money for surgery, cause her dad wasn't going to cough up for it. She held out for 2 weeks until the pain was too unbearable and made an appointment last week. I need to check and see what they said. Oh yeah, she's working through all of this - because the rent has to be paid - it's nice that we've been getting her groceries, but food will only get you so far.
Yup, best healthcare in the world.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 29, 2019 8:52:37 GMT -5
Right. Healthcare is just part of it. But it's the easiest one to solve. Imagine breaking your arm, my foot, or the unfortunate girl in the accident, simply going to the hospital, given the necessary and proper treatment and all associated follow up including meds... and never having to spend a single second of their life worrying about how they are to pay for it. You know, like how it works in most first world countries, and even many that are 2nd and 3rd world countries.
Just removing that burden alleviates many of the others. It's one hell of a good start.
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Finally!
Jun 29, 2019 10:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Jun 29, 2019 10:34:45 GMT -5
Sheer slavery.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 29, 2019 10:50:14 GMT -5
For the life of me I can't understand the opposition, the majority of which is based either "I don't want the government involved in my health care*!" or "we pay too much in taxes already**!".
*Unless it's for oppression of women's reproductive rights and autonomy over their bodies.
**Never seeming to take into consideration the fact that they pay now, just to a for-profit insurer. They don't call it a premium for nothing. If done thoughtfully, the amount we're taxed would be much less than the payments made to giant corporations, where their first priority is the shareholders.
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Finally!
Jun 29, 2019 12:28:03 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Jun 29, 2019 12:28:03 GMT -5
Because everyone has to go it alone, just as the motto says: E pluribus unum.
Yeah, it's terrible. People can't imagine that taking care of the community has any benefits until they need it.
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Post by minx on Jun 30, 2019 12:38:00 GMT -5
I do think a big part of it is the realization that at some point and at some level you're going to have to say that not everyone should have the expensive procedure, the designer drug or be hooked up to a machine that will prolong your life. Decisions do have to be made. And right now, for the most part, they're made out of the public limelight - the ones that hit the limelight are the photogenic ones who have a great story. You rarely hear about the people who have tried their best, and live quiet lives of desperation.
We all want to think that when that catastrophe occurs, or the big decisions have to be made that we'll have a full and complete say, only to find out that our voice isn't strong enough to be heard, or that someone didn't listen or pay attention. My MIL was pretty adamant that she did not want to be revived in the event she was found unresponsive. In the last decade of her life she was confined to a wheelchair and in chronic pain from osteoarthritis. Yet, when the day came and she was found unresponsive, the staff revived her and sent her to the ICU.
My friend didn't want to go to VCU this week - she has no family in Richmond and wanted to stay up here. But again she was given no choice.
And my good friend who died of ovarian cancer at 43, didn't have a choice when the doctors told her that there was no sense in continuing chemo.
People are afraid of something (the infamous death panels) that they really have no control over.
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Finally!
Jun 30, 2019 13:03:00 GMT -5
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 30, 2019 13:03:00 GMT -5
Fear is the Great Motivator no?
And the irony is that insurance companies always had and always will have death panels. They just don't show them with the smiling happy family on the cover of their brochure. But everyone here knows someone who got the thumbs down.
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Post by No. 1 son on Jun 30, 2019 16:35:29 GMT -5
BUT, my husband makes enough that we could afford the hit (all of it was LWOP), because we had savings. There's your key, you were thinking about unexpected expenses and saved for it. Not everyone can save enough, but if the tax code incentivized savings instead of spending, it would happen more. That was your decision, not the state's. Healthcare has always been triage, and probably always will be as it is a big card for politicians to play. Instead of americans trading quality of life and personal freedom for subsistence payout by the state we need to really learn to take care of our own lives, government can help, but it doesn't seem to be a priority. Having our national healthcare managed by pharmaceuticals and the AMA is not working out for us. You may say that's not how it is, but it is.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 30, 2019 17:40:12 GMT -5
Holy mother of facepalm... They saved for what, Larry? A $10k hospital bill? A $50k hospital bill? A $100k hospital bill? $250k? 500k? And a lost salary? Or 2 Lost salaries to stay home and care for their loved ones, that is, until they lose their homes. Annnnnd a private insurer that caps your claims if they don't just deny them altogether. And you want the government to stay out of their business? FMTT! WtF is the government for, exactly? I can give you 3 examples of people I know personally who "prepared" themselves for a crisis+. In all 3, they wound up broke, declaring bankruptcy, and begging for donations through GoFundMe and others.
And all 3 thought just like you do. Now they don't. Guess why?
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Post by me on Jun 30, 2019 18:34:11 GMT -5
No, John. No one can afford a meteorite strike. But, you can plan for kids that you have and their future needs, some unexpected costs, loss of earnings, increasing medical care etc. Take care of yourself. That used to be the way we did it here. What's changed is the economy and the rise of the entitled . You choose extreme cases without background. The relationship between government and it's sponsors (taxpayers) should be not to be to subsidize terrible decisions, or and how you determine who needs what. Pay off college loans? Who pays for that? I'll tell you, people that didn't go to college or paid off their loans. Free health care, free college? You know about free, don't you. The relationship between govt and the people that govern is 2 way, a partnership with responsibilities and shared concerns. It ain't happening.
I know that you won't agree with this, but I still think you are cuter than poop.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jun 30, 2019 21:18:31 GMT -5
Extreme cases without any background are millions of peoples' realities.
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Finally!
Jul 1, 2019 6:26:13 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Jul 1, 2019 6:26:13 GMT -5
Some folks like to pretend that they don't understand collective benefit things like insurance, and The Commons, and the social contract. Everything is meddlesome government, until THEY need something.
Other people are just stupid and don't understand those things at all.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jul 1, 2019 7:51:29 GMT -5
Oh come now, don't you at least enjoy the tales of America's Bootstrap Era?
My only question is if "we", at one time, were all financially responsible and secure enough to take care of ourselves, why did we ever need insurance (of any sort) in the first place? After we figure that out, we can move on to entitlements. But only after.
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Finally!
Jul 1, 2019 8:37:30 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Jul 1, 2019 8:37:30 GMT -5
It's always "E pluribus I got mine, bitches".
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Post by minx on Jul 1, 2019 9:39:16 GMT -5
Sip, I see your point, but at the same time, medical expenses have gone up exponentially, while coverage has gone down. And we're still stuck in a system where your insurance is directly connected to your employment - one of my co-workers had great insurance in their previous job, but got laid off. His wife was pregnant when this happened, so they were thrilled that they didn't have to worry about pre-existing conditions. But our insurance has a $3500 deductible, so what should have been an 'affordable' expense, became a huge burden. And of course, they had to pay to move that policy from employee + spouse to full family coverage, which is a pretty expensive jump.
So it's easy to say that I was 'smart', when in reality I was lucky. It wasn't something disastrous, and I have amazing insurance coverage. I know far, far too many people who aren't in that situation, and I personally have friends who have drained every ounce of savings they've had when they or a child have become ill.
And health care is way different than student loan debt. While I do feel sorry for those people, they all made a conscious decision to take that debt on, and I don't believe the taxpayers should be the ones to pay it off for them. However, I do think that the government should step in for those cases where students were defrauded by institutions that didn't provide the certifications or degrees students were promised. But if you decided to go $100K into debt to pay for a batchelor's degree, I can't say that I feel for you, when there were other options available.
I will give one caviar - I am all for the government offering forgiveness for people who go into medical fields, and agree to work in an under served area for a specific amount of time, as having doctors, nurses, counselors available to a wider area of people is for the greater national good IMO.
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Finally!
Jul 1, 2019 9:51:24 GMT -5
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Jul 1, 2019 9:51:24 GMT -5
I think that was Larry
and caviar??? Lol
And why do you make so much sense most of the time? Clearly you are not a product of our public school entitlement program.
I agree with your point/s about student loan debt. It was brought into the conversation about MWH suing PATIENTS for unpaid hospital bills and has zero correlation with STUDENTS choosing to take on college debt.
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Post by No. 1 son on Jul 1, 2019 11:03:42 GMT -5
I brought up the student loans with the forgiven hospital debts because it encourages people to game the system and invites bad decisions. There are people that desperately need help for things beyond their control, but it doesn't number 130 million, which is the no of people not in the workforce. Candidates are battling each other to offer free college, free medical care, free babysitting, free health care to immigrants legal or not, and of course who would not want that? I think Harris said that free college will enable students to go to their dream college. That's what Clinton said would happen with the ACA, people could float around to their dream job. Lot of dreams out there. I think people need to be incentivised to at least try and support themselves with a little help from uncle instead of it being plan A from childhood. The deferred compensation 401's were a step in the right direction, and lots of people took advantage of it to save, and worked well until wall street figured out how to exploit it. So many problems here with healthcare, housing, and employment and we are encouraging millions of people from 3rd world countries to come aboard without even checking in? That's madness. It is also very close to the definition of treason. Yeah, there's a lot of misfortunates out here, but we shouldn't build our economy around those, no matter how many there are and instead staunch the flow of wealth out of our country and rebuild a trust between the people and those in charge, a working relationship. This ain't working.
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Finally!
Jul 1, 2019 11:08:12 GMT -5
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Post by bobathon on Jul 1, 2019 11:08:12 GMT -5
You do realize people "not in the workforce" largely means children and retirees, right?
It sure is weird how so many countries can afford national health care, but we can't. At least our wealthy parasite class is wealthier than ever.
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Post by No. 1 son on Jul 1, 2019 12:42:23 GMT -5
If the presidential campaign of 2016 didn't generate an interest in a 3rd party, nothing ever will. Here's an idea to address the disparity in income. If the state or the feds can set a minimum wage, why can't they set a maximum wage? Set the minimum wage at say $30 per hour, and the maximum wage at $35 an hour, That will certainly encourage better employees won't it? I think it would end the bickering too.
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Post by bobathon on Jul 1, 2019 12:49:22 GMT -5
That's not a bullshit remark at all, nope. Everyone always has the same opportunity and life events here in Legomerika.
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Post by minx on Jul 1, 2019 13:32:18 GMT -5
'Free' medical care should be a given in this country (I say free because taxpayers would be footing the bill) No person in this country should die of a disease that could have easily been treated if caught early. At the same time, I don't feel that every little thing should be covered either, and if you talk to Canadians, they don't cover it all either.
So, annual checkups - covered Well woman checkups - annually for those below menopause, then every 3 years after unless medically indicated - covered Mammograms - covered Colonoscopies - covered Lab panels for general metabolic conditions and things like high blood sugar - every 6 months unless medically indicated - covered Well baby checks and immunizations - covered Dental cleanings and check-ups - twice a year Birth control - free Pre-natal care and delivery - free In general, any routine tests or office visits will be covered at no cost to the patient. Coverage would follow AMA guidelines, and payments to providers should be capped and tied to the consumer product index
That would at least be a start, and might prevent things like "I finally got insurance and went to the doctor and have 20 different things wrong because I never received proper medical care"
And we need to have decent child care available on a sliding scale, along with disability set on a sliding scale as well Too many people would work extra hours but can't because they would completely lose a subsidy - it would be great to pick up an extra shift, but not if it will cost you losing your subsidized housing, or child care. However, if it meant that 30% of your extra pay would be taken out for that, I bet people would be willing to do it. Same with disability - once you go over a specified amount, it (and Medicare) is gone. That's not right - it should taper off gradually so that you do have the incentive to work.
That would be a start - I don
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