Looks like in Henrico the cops

[No. 1 son]

are finally addressing mental health. She was flagged by someone. Investigation is creeping on here. 

[Dave's Not Here Man]

A welfare check is not a flag. It is also not a warrant, and in my opinion they entered the home illegally. They should shut down that police department and lock up the cops that stepped foot in her home.

[No. 1 son]

When someone, in this case her doctor, calls the cops to alert them to "something" it is a flag. Maybe not a red flag, more like a yellow flag, but it invites disaster. I think this is criminal action, maybe not murder but negligent homicide. It will never go to a jury, but people there won't forget it either.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

In that case every call that comes across the police, fire, and rescue radio is a flag.

Hey, I've got one for you.... The day I called 911 to have the old man taken to the hospital, the ambulance was sitting in front of their neighbors house. I though they went to the wrong house so went out there to let them know it was us they were looking for. The EMT came up to me and said they were waiting for the police, that when they have a call of a person who is "combative" that's the law in their town. So 2 squads pull up and the ambulance follows them in. I'm sorry to report that no guns were drawn despite the threat. 🙄

[No. 1 son]

Little subtle but very real difference from police and emt calls, they are based on crimes or situation in progress. The flag laws initiate with a citizen or other person speculating on what may or may not occur. There is a difference. Did you mention combative to the dispatch or is that something they introduced?

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I did. In order for them to admit him to the geriatric behavioral unit at the hospital. Explained it in the other thread.

[minx]

I'm glad that they're investigating.

At the same time, I think we're going to have to come up with a better way of doing these welfare checks.
The police are receiving a call saying that someone is in danger of harming themselves or others.
They go to the house, knock on the door, peek in the windows and see nothing.
Two days later, we find that person dead in their home, and we all point fingers at the police asking why they didn't do more to save that person.

Police get an identical call - same situation
They try a few doorknobs, find an open door and go in.
Inhabitant comes at them with a knife, gun, or in this case an ax.
Cop shoots them, and fingers are pointed saying that they should have done more.

This is a no-win situation on all angles, and there has to be a better way to handle things. In this case, I wonder what this woman's relationship was to that doctor. Was her her regular doctor, or someone she saw on-call? Did he have any emergency contact information for her, and if so why wasn't it used? Reading the article, it's hard to know what the police were told before they went there.

And for the record, I do not believe the law gave them any right to enter the house in the first place, even if she left the door wide open.
And I would like to know why they didn't try to tase her, but I suspect that if someone was in my face with an ax, it might not be my first instinct either.

[bobathon]

And you might go after two intruders, with your axe.

Maybe we should have more medical types and fewer shootemup types on wellness calls. Ah, that's probably violating someone's right to shoot.

[k9krap]

Yep. Someone comes in my house and awakens me will likely get pepper-sprayed.

[bobathon]

And if you're not right in the head, you might not believe someone telling you they're 5-0.

[k9krap]

I don’t trust anyone, law enforcement or otherwise.

[minx]

Sadly, I think we're going to see more and more of these cases.
Mental health care in this country has always sucked big time, and even if you have insurance/money, it's difficult to find and access good treatment options.

I think that in the past people had family and friends who would look out for you. When I look back on my family, my mom and dad were the renegades - they dared to move from NJ to IL after they were married, but they eventually came back to the fold. When my maternal grandparents died, my mother was the furthest away - 40 minutes. My paternal grandmother moved to Florida when she retired, and my dad followed her down there. There was always a family member nearby.

Looking at my siblings, my eldest sister is in NYS, my brother is in AZ, I'm in VA. One sister lives at home with my mom, and another sister lives 30 minutes from my mom.
On Mr. Minx's side, one brother is in FL, another in CO, and his sister just moved to KY.

Not only are we far-flung, but we're also not in close contact. I could probably tell you more about a work acquaintance's medical conditions than I could any of my siblings. So what does happen if one of us gets sick, or develops a mental illness - I assume all of my siblings have a decent social life, but I couldn't name their friends or neighbors. So we're back down to having a police officer, who has some very minor training in mental illness go check up. This guy doesn't know me, or in all reality what the actual issue may be. Am I going to be violent and try to attack? Am I despondent and will have to be talked out of doing something foolish? Am I unconscious? Am I unresponsive and possibly dying?

And if no one answers, but the door is unlocked, what then? Do I go in and try to check on the assumption that someone's life is at risk, or do I say that no one answered and walk away?

I think that we overestimate the ability of a police officer to make these life or death decisions. We all act like they've gotten some sort of training that will make them superior decision makers, and that they'll have the ability to look at a situation and within one second determine what's happening and how to safely resolve things. In reality, they get roughly 4 months of training before they graduate and go to work.


Much like schools and other government agencies, we are abdicating our own responsibilities to ourselves, our families and our neighbors and expecting organizations who aren't designed (and were never designed) to do what we should be doing. Then when things go south, we all throw up our hands and cry "they shouldn't have done that!"

I don't know a solution to this - we all seem to becoming more disconnected by the day, and we're allowing social media to pull us away from priorities like taking care of each other.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

💯