|
|
Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Nov 23, 2019 9:45:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by minx on Nov 24, 2019 11:24:04 GMT -5
It's a double-edged sword however - I get pissed off at you for whatever reason and say you made threats.
Police go to your house, and there are guns there. And your social media account looks suspicious, even though you say you never posted stuff like that.
Maybe you are a threat, and maybe you're not. How do they (or society) know for sure?
Just like swatting. Some asshole decides to get revenge on you for a slight, finds your address and calls in a fictitious threat to call out the cops in full riot gear.
I don't know the answer. I'm glad that the threat in this case was neutralized. At the same time, how do you tell the real from the fake in these situations?
Even more disturbing is that the kid who shot up the other school, used a kit gun to do it. So how do you rate a threat when the kid says that his classmate can't take a simple joke, admits the joke was in poor taste, and there are no guns in the house?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Nov 24, 2019 12:08:15 GMT -5
I think we have this really bad habit of overcomplicating things. That's not to say we should be going 180 degrees, but some of this doesn't need all the nuance it gets. Just as importantly, we have to accept that there's no such thing as a perfect system or solution. We are not and never will be able to know all the good guys from all the bad guys. It's impossible. So with that in mind, here's my very uneducated, poorly considered, ignorant plan- (aka a Trump Plan) for dealing with a significant portion of the issue at hand-
If someone reports a specific threat with evidence (a text/s, message/s on social media, voice mail, written on a bathroom wall), Red Flag. If someone reports a specific threat but lacks any of the aforementioned evidence (perhaps a verbal threat or gesture), Yellow Flag. If someone reports a non specific threat (he was "acting suspicious"), Green Flag.
Red and Yellow Flags requires a JUDGE to issue a warrant for the subject and no search or detainment can be executed without one. Green flag investigations can be conducted in a manner in which LE seeks to talk to the subject and may only act upon reasonable cause, upon which time the subject is detained until a judge approves a warrant, if said judge agrees with the reasonable cause. But one last thing to add (pork barrel item) is "acting suspiciously" is not a crime and the subject may refuse to speak to LE, refuse to ID, and may not be detained without probable cause.
|
|
|
|
Post by minx on Nov 24, 2019 13:07:00 GMT -5
Okay, now define threat.
If I say "Man, I really wish I could kill my teachers", is that a threat, or am I venting because my teachers are assholes?
And if you think I'm acting suspicious, will a record be kept? If you dislike me because I told you to mow your grass and called you an asshole when you said no, can you report me as acting suspicious, and will that go on a record of some sort?
You're talking about reporting someone and keeping a record on them because they said something - what about requiring folks to register their guns and take training on their use and safety? What about reporting anyone who buys and AR-15 (since they seem to be the weapon of choice in these shootings), or someone who buys more than one gun?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Nov 24, 2019 13:29:51 GMT -5
"The term threat... in criminal law is a menace or declaration of one's purpose or intention toward injury to the person, property, or rights of another, by commission of an unlawful act.
Refer to the above. Also please read my prior post. The issue of acting suspicious was covered, and is not a threat nor a crime.
No, you are.
Separate issue, entirely.
Yeah, and the reason we can't have rational discussions about common sense solutions, because everyone wants to move the goalposts.
|
|
|
|
Post by minx on Nov 25, 2019 9:40:55 GMT -5
Police don't investigate credible threats as it is. How many women and children are killed each year by violent partners? The biggest risk to them is trying to report to police - it pisses off their abuser, and the police and courts rarely take the threat very seriously, even when the dude has beaten the living crap out of the woman. That's why so many women drop charges - when your attacker is out on bond less than 24hrs later, and you have no really safe place to go with your 3 kids, you suck it up and go back. Then when your attacker does kill all of you, everyone involved wring their hands and say "If only we had known!"
So yeah, I am a total cynic on this. More children die at the hands of their parents each year than are killed in school shootings, but as a whole we don't focus on that. Just like we don't focus on the abysmal lack of mental health resources and care in our country, the lack of jobs that pay enough to allow a parent to stay at home at least PT with their children, and the terrible conditions in many of our public schools (would you expect a professional with multiple degrees to report to work in a building with mold growing on the walls, leaky rooks and broken chairs? Yet we think it's fine to put teachers and children in that environment and get results).
There are so, so many issues that are damaging and traumatizing our children - it would be nice to focus on things that could truly make a difference. Any while this story can allow us to breathe a sigh of relief, I think it's a rather false one.
If we really wanted to stop school shootings, we would have had to have started years ago with one simple question - how many guns does one individual actually need? And what type? And yes, I would err on the side of caution and assume that each citizen was an avid hunter or target shooter, and might need more than one gun. But where exactly do we stop?
|
|
|
|
Post by bobathon on Nov 25, 2019 10:06:35 GMT -5
Time to cut taxes on the rich, America hater!
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Nov 25, 2019 10:59:36 GMT -5
Domestic violence. Another separate issue. Not going there on this thread.
Yes, I'm thankful the one in this topic was prevented from carrying out the threat, as we'd almost certainly be talking about how LE failed to prevent another tragedy involving dozens of dead schoolchildren if they had not. It's the way of the world; act or react. I choose to air on the side of prevention and act, with caution. YMMV.
|
|
