Speaking of experience

[bobathon]

Have any of you ever actually needed the cops and gotten satisfaction?

I have never needed a cop.


PS There sure are a lot of cops for solving about no crimes.

I

[k9krap]

Yes but it was a long time ago. My apartment was on the corner of Sophia and Hanover, just below Trench Hill so we got a lot of college traffic. One night we were awakened by my dog barking frantically. Someone was trying to get in the back door. It was a duplex, and the back yard was fenced (3 foot). Called the cops but by the time they arrived, the dude was gone. They found him a few minutes later a few houses down. He was drunk, of course.

My husband (first marriage) was never the same after that. He was paranoid schizophrenic, and this incident started him on a deep, horrendous cycle down to a horrible place that I never want to see or even hear about again.

[minx]

Yes, I have actually needed the cops on more than one occasion, and each time they responded and were professional and polite. Then again, each time, I was a nice white girl/woman in a middle class neighborhood, so definitely a YMMV thing.

What's truly depressing to me right now is the total closing of the ranks since George Floyd and Breonna Taylor were killed. It seemed that with the protests and spotlight, that the decent officers would finally start speaking out, and rather than trying to get the heartwarming stories of their good actions out, would put forward concrete proposals to stop this from occurring again.

Even if it were pleas for more officers, or a lighter schedule so they could fit in more training on better non-lethal methods of restraint it would have been SOMETHING.

The police do have a purpose in society, and are needed - crime won't disappear if they're removed/
But they need proper funding - and by proper funding, I mean each department should be funded to the level that they can put the following positions on the street on a daily basis
Case workers who can quickly respond to a domestic situation to assess the family and the safety of children and pets (many abusers use the threat of violence against a pet to keep their victims from talking)
Trained therapists who also can quickly respond to cases where the mentally ill are involved
Addiction specialists who can respond to cases of drunkenness and drug overdose
Mediators who can negotiate in a hostage situation
Regular officers who can do neighborhood patrol
PR officers who can visit schools, churches, hospitals, ect and do safety trainings

Note that all of the above should also have to go through the academy and get fully trained as a police officer, along with knowing all the laws and different uses of force. I'm not advocating that we send out an unarmed social worker to a domestic violence dispute where a drunk is holding a gun to his wife's head or threatening to shoot the kids.

And above all else, there needs to be FULL ACCOUNTABILITY. That means every response is recorded with full audio and video - no exceptions. With the technology we have today, we should even be able to mandate that on calls for suspected violence (someone's beating up the neighbor's dog!), that the response is streamed in real-time back to someone in the precinct who might be able to communicate with the officer and tell them to stand down. And after an encounter (especially a violent one) that all participants are given contact information for the precinct or the officer and are kept up-to-date until the incident is resolved.

Right now, I'm pushing for a start
Fully functional body cams that will record audio and video of all encounters. Policies that cameras MUST be turned on before an officer exits their vehicle. Recording to be uploaded within 10 minutes of the officer leaving the scene. And stiff penalties for not using a camera.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

My many encounters with them were mostly unsolicited. I've called the to report aggressive and dangerous drivers but obviously never witnessed any action on their part as a result. As far as the one or two times I called them for my own benefit, they were pretty useless. Perhaps it's that general occupational uselessness that drives them when the real opportunities to accel arise.

[minx]

It would be interesting to see how many current police officers are vets, and how many of those vets were deployed in the endless Middle-East wars.

I say this because of the hardening of the us vs them mentality of the police. It was always there, but in my eyes back in the 70s, there was at least an acknowledgement that you could criticize the police, and not be an enemy of the people. Now, you're either with them, or against them. No middle ground.

So I wonder if a lot of that attitude is coming from the experiences these men (and women) had overseas. Because their training was that no one outside of your ranks could be trusted. Didn't matter how nice they were, or how innocent they looked. If they did not immediately submit to your authority or do exactly what you told them to do, they were a threat to you. And you needed to protect yourself and the people you were with no matter what.

When I think back to all of the lethal (and almost lethal) encounters between police and Blacks, the one thing you always see as an element is that the officer felt threatened. And the person who was shot is always 'resisting' or 'not complying'. Sandra Bland told the officer who arrested her that she didn't have to put out her cigarette. Philandro Castile took his hand off his steering wheel. Michael Brown was running away after being told to stop. George Floyd resisted getting into a police car. Jacob Black was trying to get back into his car. Breonna Taylor's boyfriend shot his gun after the door to their house was busted in.
None of them were 'obeying orders', or doing what the officers responding expected them to do, which was to immediately submit and comply. Therefore they were a threat. And you have to protect yourself, and those near you first. Number one rule of engagement. Protect yourself and your patrol.

So, better police training is probably worth shit. Many of these officers had been trained on less lethal uses of force, but instinctively went for the most lethal within minutes or moments of the encounter. How do you train years and years of combat experience out of a person?

That's why I've switched my position away from better training or mandating the police be trained on less lethal uses of force. I don't think it will work.
I say full accountability.
- Spend the money to upgrade all departments nationwide so that they have the latest technology to record and track officer's movements.
- Require all officers to wear recording equipment that will record the full video and audio on any encounter. If it can be done automatically (ie the officer doesn't have to do something to trigger the recorders to start recording), that would be amazing, but for now, let's just say that it's a requirement to verify the recorder is on anytime they exit the car.
- All recordings should be uploaded in real time, so that someone at a higher level of command can be watching in a dangerous situation.
- Recordings and police reports to be routinely audited by an outside commission consisting of both police officers, and members of the public on a weekly basis - if a violent encounter occurs, the district attorney will be required to en -panel a special grand jury within 10 days of the occurrence to consider if charges need to be brought against the officers involved.
- All officers will be trained on 'scripts' to be used when confronting the public, and will be trained in customer service skills
-- This means no more "Do you know why I pulled you over?" type of questions
-- When arriving at the scene, the officer will clearly identify him or herself to all people at the scene (I am Officer Sam Smith with the Podunk Police Department - Everyone here needs to stop moving and stand still right now!)
-- The officer will be professional and civil in their interactions with citizens, and be responsible for using behavior to de-escalate situations. If a situation escalates because the of the officer's words or tone of speech, the officer will be considered responsible.

None of this is to say that officers need to become 'politically correct wussies', but to actually be professionals.

So a traffic stop
"Good afternoon sir, I am officer Sam Smith of the Podunk Police Department, and I have stopped you because your brake lights are not working. I need to see your license and registration please"
Driver - "What? You pulled me over for that? What kind of an asshole are you?"
"Sir, the law states that you must have working brake lights. Once again I need your license and registration"
Driver "Here they are"
(Officer takes information, goes back to car and returns with a ticket or warning)
"Sir, here is your paperwork. In addition, I am giving you a ticket for driving a car with no brake lights. You need to have the lights fixed within 10 days, and the payment for the ticket is due in 10 days as well, or the fine will increase. Do you have any questions?"
Driver "You shithead! I can't afford this!"
"I'm sorry sir, but that is the law. You may leave now."

For an encounter where someone has called because of an accident where the officer is first at the scene
"I am officer Sam Smith of the Podunk Police Department. Everyone needs to stand still and not speak for one moment so I can see what is happening. First, is anyone here injured?"
Everyone babbles at once
"Again, you all need to stand still and be quiet right now. (points at one person) - I would like you to clearly tell me if anyone in your party is injured and needs medical help. No? I want one person to speak for the other party - does anyone need medical help? No one? Thank you. Let's move on to the next question"

Yeah, it's a hard thing when you're used to just being able to show up, shout orders and throw your weight around. And clearly in a total disaster, the rules don't apply. But then again, how many times do we read about 'ordinary' people stepping up and taking charge in a disaster? It's not something that requires the police for sure.

In my current position, every call I make is recorded. My supervisors (or their supervisors) can hop on my phone line at any time and listen to my live calls. After every case I handle is closed, the customer gets a short survey asking to rate me, and yes, there is a long free-form section where they can put their comments. Our customer support website prominently features my manager and his contact information, along with the contact information for his boss, and her boss in case you have concerns about any of the support personnel. And if you do complain, the first thing they do is listen to the recording of the initial call, along with reviewing all contact you've had with the customer.
What do I do? I supply software support for a parking company. People call me because they can't sell a parking permit to a student (we handle a lot of university and college parking), or an officer is having a problem with their phone app that they use to write a parking ticket. Nothing at all that is life-threatening. Yet, I'm held to a higher standard of civility and monitoring than the police are.
The last time one of my kids was in the ER, we received a survey afterwards. It asked if the personnel (nurses and doctors) had taken complaints seriously, checked in at regular intervals, and had explained everything clearly. It also asked about the professionalism of the staff. Again, the ER seems to be held to a higher professional standard than the police, and I'm sure they see their fair share of violent or non-compliant folks.

I'm so fucking tired of being told that the police are somehow more special than the rest of us, and are therefore exempt from any standard of niceness. Maybe if they have to prove that they are responsible, then they'll have more respect.....

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I hate to respond to all you wrote with a short quip but... Us vs Them is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. And I'm talking about just cops but any time someone has authority over others with the aim of keeping it that way.

[bobathon]

Our Boys In Blue are WARRIORS, Dear Civilian. Everyone is a potential threat.