Something about a pendulum

[Dave's Not Here Man]

We all know very well how it works. The cops shoot a ni.... and before the body is cold, start moving dirt around so they can use the "he was the criminal not the victim, long history of this that the other" routine as their defense for their hero in blue. On the other side of town, well, he was a good boy, not MY BABY! and/or was trying to get his life together and give the media pictures of him when he was y and missing a tooth... he didn't deserve this. As we also all know in 99.9% of life, there's 3 sides to every story; mine, yours, and the truth. 

There's something very different happening in the Jacob Blake story. He survived. Now we're getting to hear his side of the story. Only..... he's not telling it. Obviously the lawyers have told him to stfu about the events of that day, not one gotdamn word. 

So the media now has itself a real live victim. There's literally no media talk about how they had an outstanding warrant for the guy, which is the reason he was being arrested to begin with. How he fought the cops, and how he decided to take the Wyatt Earp stance of "I don't think you're going to arrest me today, Johnny".... just poor Jacob may never walk again something something racists cops. Here's a flame thrower now go protest peacefully.

What happens now? Not just in this case but in law enforcement. Will law breakers and wanted individuals be given the option of whether to be arrested or not? Will cops no longer have the option of use of force altogether? Or will everyone double the fuck down and it gets worse by ten fold? Tune in tomorrow for the weekend body count in Chicago that has nothing to do with any of this and is, IMO, a problem of infinite more concern. 

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Yeah I know, more guns will solve the problem. Rolling eyes emoticon.

[minx]

I've actually read accounts where they say that he had an outstanding warrant and had been tased twice before trying to get back into his car.
And they weren't from right wing sources either.

This does go back to accountability and communication to me though.

I don't recall the police department issuing a very clear statement when this happened (and I could be very wrong on this)
Something along the lines of Today at xx, a police shooting occurred at yy.

Police had been called regarding an alleged assault - the victim stated that A was in their domicile in violation of a restraining order
A has a felony warrant outstanding for domestic assault
Three officers responded, and when told he was under arrest A did xyz
Two different officers attempted a non-lethal restraint by tasing A, with no effect
A attempted to enter a car with three young children inside. He was belligerent and had stated he was retrieving a knife.
At that point, he was shot multiple times

A bystander has recorded part of the encounter, and has allowed us to see the footage.
As policy, all three officers are on leave while this incident is being investigated to see what charges (if any) should be brought.
These are the facts as we know them right now. We will have a further update at xxx unless something comes to light sooner.

Doing a quick Google search I've found statements from the police union, the DA's office, friends of the officers, Blake's family, ect.
But I don't see one from the police chief or the department spokesperson (I will say the amount of crap that comes up is overwhelming though)


Communications and accountability
Body cams at all times - no exceptions
Quick and factual communications
Full impartial investigations
And continued communications

I see it from both sides. From the civilian side, I'm sure that most blacks, and families of anyone with a mental illness feel it's a total crapshoot - if I call 911, will it work, or will someone be dead before this is over?
And on the police side - am I being called to an impossible situation? If I do end up having to shoot someone, will the department have my back, or am I going to be hung out to dry as an example?

What I still don't get is the police resistance to body cams and more accountability. One would think that the good cops would be all over it.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Remove that qualified immunity and every last one of them will be.

[k9krap]

Um, 7 shots. Why? Because the diminutive cop was terrified. And there were children in the vehicle that he shot into. That man should no longer be a cop, ever. Period.

[bobathon]

No arrests, ever, just gun them all down, and be sure to empty the magazine. Every time. Then we’ll finally have a nice orderly society.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Sept 6, 2020 16:37:16 GMT -5 k9krap said:

Um, 7 shots. Why? Because the diminutive cop was terrified. And there were children in the vehicle that he shot into. That man should no longer be a cop, ever. Period.

Already addressed- because 6 wasn't enough and 8 was too many. 

D/A- What happens if he (Blake) gets in that vehicle and starts it moving? Obviously none of us internet warriors and backseat QBs know, nor could we. As far as the cop is concerned, the guy fought them while he was being arrested, got tased, still made it back to the vehicle to escape arrest, while having guns trained on him. If he's able to get in that vehicle Does he try drive away? Well, if he does, they have to chase him and 1)go through all of this again 2)he is a danger to the general public (that's you, me, and our families) 3)tries to mow down the cops with the vehicle 4)all of the above. I can almost gaurantee if he gets in that car there are more casualties, possibly and probably including the kids in it.

Now roll all those possibilities and make a decision in 1.2 seconds. 

[minx]

Yeah - Blake is not the poster child for police brutality IMO. The man had an outstanding warrant for felony assault, and was in violation of a protective order when police arrived at the scene.
Plus he 100% was resisting arrest, and acting violent and belligerent. Saying you're getting a knife so you can cut the police officer trying to arrest you is not my definition of just being upset.

This is where a body cam or three would have been helpful - if those officers had been wearing some, perhaps we wouldn't be here debating this.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Full disclosure when I first saw the video of officer dumping his clip in the dude's back, I thought "he wanted that guy dead".... I still feel that way but in the same way you put it, I'm not going down to the corner to burn down the fasmart over it.

The guy with the knee? Yeah one sec... let me just go get my torch.

[k9krap]

Sorry, I disagree that Blake’s shooting was justified. Assault is not battery. It’s not fun but isn’t deadly, either. Nevertheless, there is no way a cop should be jury, judge and executioner.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

So what do think should have happened there?

[k9krap]

They most likely know where he lives, right? Research the fuck out of him, learn his habits, etc. so they can get him when he’s alone (no children at risk) and more vulnerable. They would be in charge in my circumstance, unlike the one that occurred where he was in charge and winning forcing them to react.

Another issue is how they dealt with the PCP-crazed and mentally unstable guy in Rochester. That was awful and so sad in so many ways. Of course, I was married to and lived with insanity, so I’m familiar with the frustration and helplessness that it can induce. Still, it doesn’t absolve murder.

[bobathon]

I don’t think cops should be armed or trained that they are warriors. They’ll find ways to de-escalate then, instead of getting bored and using the point and click interface. Respect mah screamed authoritah.

And don’t give me any of that dangerous jerb nonsense, most dead cops are killed by their own driving.

[minx]

I agree with you on one hand Pam, but on the other, we don't take domestic abuse seriously enough in this country. We tell women to go get a restraining order, and then when it's violated nothing happens. I 100% think Blake should have been arrested on the spot. And no, he didn't deserve to get shot but at the same time from the point of view of the police, he was wanted on a felony charge, and was in direct violation of a restraining order. He was becoming violent, had threatened further violence and was trying to enter a car with small children inside. So what were they supposed to do at that point?

I think the public needs to be educated on the number 1 fact of police work. If they're going to pull the trigger on that gun, they will fire until it's empty. None of this stunt shooting you see on TV shows - they don't aim for a knee - they go for the largest area available.

And in terms of mental health, we need to do so much better. Cops aren't trained on how to deal with a person having a breakdown at all. In those situations, the family probably has better ideas of how to calm or control that person down than the cops who respond would - that's not right. In an ideal world, there would be enough counselors and psychiatrists for all, so that police wouldn't be the first call - there would be a medical professional or three who could help first.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Ugh.

According to Matthews, the officers were dispatched there because of a complaint that Blake was attempting to steal the caller’s keys and vehicle. Matthews said officers were aware that Blake had an open warrant for felony sexual assault before they arrived.


So we're not responding to 911 calls now? That's your answer to preventing police misconduct?

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Sept 8, 2020 5:16:15 GMT -5 bobathon said:

I don’t think cops should be armed or trained that they are warriors. They’ll find ways to de-escalate then, instead of getting bored and using the point and click interface. Respect mah screamed authoritah.

I'm pretty sure most of us agree with that. Unfortunately, someone decided to name that activism "DEFUND THE POLICE" and just like illegal haircuts, it hands the opposition more fuel for their flamethrowers. Not for nothing but all they had to do was ask and I would've told them "DEMILITARIZE THE POLICE" would have been much more to the supposed point.

[minx]

And he allegedly broke into the victim's house, penetrated her with his fingers and then said "Smells like you've been with other men"
And tried to take her keys so she couldn't leave, and her phone so she couldn't call police

So yeah, if I was responding to that call, I'd have my taser at the ready. And apparently he was tased twice. At what point do we say this man is a violent felon and is a direct danger to others?

Personally, I'd like to know why two separate tasers can't take a person down and incapacitate him/her for at least 2-3 minutes so a cop could get the person in cuffs.

And I don't know what to do for mental health issues. Police receive almost no training on how to handle them, yet we expect them to not only respond to a crisis but to be super compassionate and kind while doing so.
I personally don't think sending a counselor out on those calls is going to make a damn bit of difference. If you're so out of control that your family can't talk you down, a total stranger isn't going to do the job either. And if they can talk you down, what next? Not like there are enough doctors or hospitals to really help.

[k9krap]

A thirteen year old, highly functioning autistic boy was shot many times while running from police in Salt Lake City. His mother had returned to work after nearly a year and he was reacting to the routine change, which isn’t unusual for the autistic. She had called 911, asking for assistance in getting him to the hospital. She told them several times that he wasn’t armed. The police explanation? “We thought he was armed.”

[minx]

Not saying the police were right to shoot that poor boy, but again - the police aren't trained for this, nor should they be IMO.
What should be happening is that the boy should have been assigned a home aide who has been trained to work with autism to come in and help him through the transition.

But when you have people who can't get into hospitals, or a group home because there's no space, there will be no help for those who have moderate needs.

We treat the police force the same way we treat teachers - they're the catch-all for anything society doesn't want to spend money to fix.

Imagine how much our national productivity would increase if people had access to affordable health care, affordable mental health care, and decent schools (ones that aren't falling apart at the seams due to years of maintenance that has been put off for lack of funds, and ones that have up to date educational materials). It's really too bad that the majority of Republicans can't use their imaginations for that, instead of railing at those who are different from themselves.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Nailed it.

[bobathon]

It’s cheaper to execute them. And that, they actually do have training for.

[k9krap]

Sadly, this is true.