Options

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I hear there's always options, so....

wtop.com/baltimore/2021/05/baltimore-co-police-release-video-of-fiery-shootout/

?

This made it into my news feed today but actually came across one of the DC channels' youtube videos this morning and saw the video. Being the pessimist (when I think of the right word I'll replace "pessimist") I've become, especially about the media's role in the way this country is heading, I could not make out the shooter/murderer demographic profile. In a normal world it wouldn't matter. In this world, it depends on that profile as to how a story gets reported.


All that aside, that one shot the officer fired was titties and beer. It's called marksmanship and he has many. The other guys that showed up....... I don't know wtf they saw that warranted emptying multiple clips. Utter mayhem? 

[minx]

Body cams for all officers. On with full audio and video at any time they are out of the car, or have a civilian in the car.
No exceptions. None.

And for the Love of God, start having different levels of policing. Do we need an armed officer to report to the scene of a petty theft where there is no evidence of the thief being in the area?
Have different tiers of responses
1) Low - officer doesn't need to be armed - stuff like taking reports of thefts, or taking statements from witnesses.
2) Medium non-crime - officer has training in things like mental health crisis response or how to respond to an overdose. Again, unarmed, but more specialized training
3) High - respond to active crime - armed with reinforced training on de-escalation of force, proper training and use of any weaponry, such as tasers and guns, and trained on how to properly subdue a suspect.

There can be an expectation that you may need more than one tier of response. For example, a level two response may escalate to the point where a level 3 officer needs to come in. Or a level 3 officer may need a level 1 to arrive and start interviewing witnesses.

But we need to do shit differently. And it starts with full accountability. Both for our protection, and the protection of the officers who actually do go out and do their jobs properly.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Unarmed cops? LOL, not on my watch. I would prefer they all be level 3 (with the understanding that screening and training will be intensive and extensive) and leave the touchy feely stuff for the "community leaders" to figure out.

I agree about accountability but it needs to be applied to everyone, not just LEOs. 

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I've been following tons of both pro and anti police content around the web over the last couple of months and found myself siding with the cops on at least half of them. I saw a video of a cops dash and bodycams on a traffic stop he made. As soon as the vehicle stopped, a man jumped out and began firing at the officer...... who ran down an embankment as the man kept firing. The cop took him out with one shot. Both were white, so it doesn't make top 100 google results or headlines, no matter how you search for the footage. One of several key points. Another is the calls I hear on the scanner that go from "caller states she hears a woman screaming help in the parking lot of..." and that "male has dragged female out of dwelling and beating her outside..." TO "caller now states that female is bipolar, heavy drug and alcohol user, and we have an OSA (Officer Safety Alert) on female for previous assault, weapons, and drug charges". But sometimes that handy piece of info doesn't always come before the man is tased, shot, and thrown in the pokey. The other night they were trying to pull over a car and the guy drove right into the fuckin James River, got out of the vehicle and floated down the river threatening to kill himself. Are we going to train psychologists to swim? No. Guess who saved his ass?

There are also people out there actively provoking the cops under the guise of "journalism". Look up First Amendment Audits. You'll be amazed at the lengths these people will go to in order to evoke a negative reaction/encounter for the sake of subscribers to their channels. On the flip side of that, some of the cops they "uncover" are clearly mentally unfit for the job. The better example of those are CopWatch and a few others that more or less follow the scanner, and record the cops in the performance of their duties, where the rubber meets the road.

[minx]

100% accountability on all sides for sure.

But I feel the police need help, and not in the form of new weaponry or assault gear, but in the form of actual bodies.
How much time and resources could be freed up by training a civilian to take reports and interview witnesses or victims of minor crimes?
How much could be saved by having a fully trained mental health professional be the first responder when the caller is threatening to kill themselves?

I truly think that if lower-level offenses and incidents could be handled by others, it would take a huge load off of the majority of officers (hopefully), and might free them up to do more community outreach and investigation to try and stop some crimes before they occur. And I do believe that the majority of police do want to protect and serve, but their hands get tied by both mountains of paperwork and the officers who are scumbags but never get properly disciplined.

But as with anything else, it will take huge investments and some patience to turn things around. It's not a help to tell an addict they need treatment when there aren't facilities open to them, or to tell a victim of domestic violence that the only real solution is going to be to pack what she and her children can carry and go to a shelter. And it has to be frustrating as hell to arrest someone for the same crime more than once.

So I do sympathize with the police - it's a hard, difficult job. But at the same time, I wish that they would also start calling for meaningful changes, even if only asking for more training.

And don't get me started on the 'citizen journalists' who deliberately toe the line to try and get the police to overreact. Total dickheads that make everyone look bad.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

May 26, 2021 12:58:00 GMT -5 minx said:

It's not a help to tell an addict they need treatment when there aren't facilities open to them, or to tell a victim of domestic violence that the only real solution is going to be to pack what she and her children can carry and go to a shelter. And it has to be frustrating as hell to arrest someone for the same crime

Yes. This.

I would estimate that on any given night when I'm listening, probably a third of the calls are either domestic abuse or drugged out loons on the loose. Last night the dispatcher called one of the officers off a domestic call for shots fired elsewhere, but didn't have any other available units to send with him/her. FYI only a very small number of shots fired calls ever leads to anyone being found victim or shooter or otherwise. So I'd say unless the munincipalities and or god forbid the state ever decided to invest heavily in E- All The Above, it's going to get progressively worse for everyone. Too many people think these things will work themselves out in a free society, but to date that has not been the trend. Body count has jumped considerably today and the police had nothing to do with it. Just like most other days.

[minx]

Truth - I read a book about domestic abuse and it was chilling reading about the numerous women who went back to their abusers because they really had no other choices - the system never makes the abuser move out, only the victim. And when you have no money, it's kind of hard to pay for food for the kids. Plus since your abuser is roaming around free on bail, it's pretty hard to go about your normal routine or have the kids do theirs. Because restraining orders aren't worth shit in the end.

And as we both know, mental health services are shit in the US, even if you have the money to pay. Very sad state of affairs.

[bobathon]

Our cops spend a lot of time practicing to kill. Not so much on de-escalation, human relations, etc. Showing up as Barney Badass has an effect on the world they live in, too. Would YOU trust a random cop?

[minx]

We all know that, but how can we change this?

We have to start by making and adding more back-up resources. We can't expect cops to be everything to everybody. Friend, confessor, mentor, counselor, rescuer, and of course enforcer.

It's not an attractive job to begin with, and most jurisdictions pay crap for it. Add the public disdain, and you're never going to get people who are jacks of all trades - would you want a job where the public literally spits on you for the princely salary of $42K a year to start? From what I've seen many who enter the academy either drop out or crash and burn under the stress pretty quickly here.

So maybe start with more back-up resources. Upgrade the 911 system (most are on old technology that makes it hard to pinpoint a cell call). Hire more 911 operators and give them better training - what they do or don't do on a call could make the difference between life and death for someone.

Hire and train counselors - these would preferably be people who are trained in trauma and emergency response. Make them a routine part of station life -there for advice on a situation, or just to listen if you need to talk to someone - have them integrated into shift briefings, and do ride-alongs.

As staffing levels pick up, have some sort of leave policy built in so that personnel can safely take leave after a traumatic call or event. Almost every officer and first responder at school shooting scenes are terribly traumatized, but are also expected to go right back to work. This is wrong - it basically forces people to stop looking at those they respond to as people.

So yeah, it would be an overhaul of policing as we know it today. And it won't be easy. And to be honest, I despair of it ever getting done, given the divisions that have always existed in our country.

[bobathon]

We need to get rid of anything that smacks of warrior cop last bastion of civility against the murderous mob. It's mythical bullshit that creates the wrong mindset.