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Post by minx on Dec 2, 2021 11:28:16 GMT -5
www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/waukesha-suspect-darrell-brooks-told-judge-he-couldnt-pay-child-support-because-he-was-getting-incarcerated/ar-AARo4FH?ocid=ientpThe more I read about this case, the larger the tragedy becomes. This man is clearly unbalanced, and doesn't seem to have received any type of significant treatment in years. And somehow in his twisted mind, he's trying to justify his many, many failures. He's not the first to fall through the cracks, and he certainly won't be the last. However, one thing I was thinking of when reading his story was John Hinckley. An equally unbalanced person who wasn't receiving the services he needed. Yet, with the help of intensive, intensive rehab, he's been released to live out his life in society. This guy is never even going to get close to that chance because his family doesn't have money or connections. But what I'm really thinking is that unless we get our asses in collective gear to train more mental health providers, we will be beyond screwed.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 2, 2021 12:32:57 GMT -5
I don't buy it. Not for this prick and not for the one in Michigan yesterday. Okay let me step that back one step- I don't buy it as a defense in either of these cases. Damn near everyone has a mental illness or "irregularity" and yet we hold jobs, raise families, contribute to society, aren't murderers, aren't assholes, and never so much as referred for evaluation. Remember, I'm speaking as someone that has been referred for evaluation.
Over the years I've been on both sides of the mental health care issue politically, personally, and in observation. Not just in my bubble. There has been this sort of predictable reaction, especially to the more atrocious crimes, that at least in some peoples' minds lifts the entirety of responsibility for those crimes from the individual that committed them and again at least in part, blames some other force for it. Be it poverty, guns, mental health, addiction, abuse, "teh system" etcetcetc.... and as an aside I think that what I just described is a huge reason why we're about to turn into a fucking red state again. But I truly digress on that issue.
Do we need to build a first class mental health care system in this country that delivers comprehensive diagnosis, treatment, and ongoing care? Yes. 100%. But we also have to be extremely careful not to make the problem worse by putting even more people, more children in particular on psychoactive drugs that they simply do not need in order to function and thrive in society. We need to start to acknowledge like I said above, that most of us have some sort of mental abnormality, and perhaps normal IS abnormal, and like the 1000s of other things every human being carries at some point most will work themselves out with age, maturity, experience, etc.
If little 10 year old Leon locks himself in his room and tortures cats, or has infatuations with fantasy, violence, death, +++++++ then yeah, someone has to be like "RED FLAG" and more or less insist that he at least be evaluated to determine the likelihood of major issues. But if he is maybe a little hyperactive, has some issues staying focused on his schoolwork, or maybe throws the occasional temper tantrum when disciplined, the first move should NOT be to rush him to the mental hospital or to someone who will medicate him and never see him again.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 2, 2021 13:07:16 GMT -5
But what I'm really thinking is that unless we get our asses in collective gear to train more mental health providers, we will be beyond screwed.
We are already screwed. >FUBAR
Society has taken a very nasty turn for the worse and it is unfixable, at least in any meaningful way. The more I think about it the more I subscribe to the belief that it's in the design/destiny.
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Post by minx on Dec 2, 2021 13:32:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this man is really mentally stable or not. The article mentions that he had been on SSI since childhood for mental illness, so perhaps not, but who knows?
As for the kid from Michigan, his daddy should be sitting next to him at the defendant's desk. Cause I'm sick and tired of reading how all the kids in this school shootings manage to get their armament from their parents, with the lone exception of the guy from Parkland who bought his own gun. Same with toddlers and little kids who get ahold of mommy or daddy's unsecured pistol with catastrophic results.
I'd like to think that this area (keeping guns out of the hands of children who don't have proper adult supervision - I'm not talking about taking Junior hunting or to the pistol range) would be a no-brainer for everyone, but of course I would be wrong on that.
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Post by k9krap on Dec 2, 2021 21:31:07 GMT -5
After seeing my first husband behave with and without the drugs, I’m torn. The drugs he took to “control” his schizophrenia were brutal. I vividly remember arriving at my parents house shortly after he was released from the hospital. His lips were cracked, his eyes had a wild look in them and his hair was all static-y and standing on end. My parents were Terri for me, particularly my mother. This was dirt he Hinckley trial and she had been watching it. And this was while he was on Thorazine and some other horrible drugs. I’m sure they’re using better stuff now but it really opened my eyes to mental illness and the treatment of.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 3, 2021 5:03:17 GMT -5
Well, we all know early and consistent treatment works best (and I mean any treatment, not just pills). But we don't give a damn about caring for our ill, much less our mentally ill. And this situation was preventable, but it was saba toogie. Money > people. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980I have no idea how to assign responsibility. But then, we don't really do accountability here, we do selected vengeance. I would prefer if we made the effort, but again, money > people, and effort takes money. |
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Post by minx on Dec 3, 2021 11:32:11 GMT -5
The sad thing is that the institutions closed in the 80s, were hell-holes and should have been shut down. But Saint Ronnie never delivered on the promised replacements, and since everyone was making money, that little oversight was conveniently ignored.
Don't get me started on guardianship laws.....
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 3, 2021 13:16:21 GMT -5
Just like I said. Murders to mental health in 2 seconds. And both or neither cases may involve it.
But if the other thing I said about everyone having it in some form and degree, obviously my uneducated theory, then I'd have to explain the forms and degress in which I'm completely unqualified to speak on. But honestly, when has that ever stopped me?
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Post by minx on Dec 3, 2021 14:08:12 GMT -5
Just saw that little Johnny's parents are being brought up on manslaughter charges. Probably cause their son shot up the school and didn't just kill some random kid in the neighborhood.
But what gets me is that the kid's teacher took a picture of a note he wrote beforehand with a picture of a gun and pictures of dead kids. Administrators met with the parents and kid. Kid had scratched out any disturbing things on the note by then, but did have his backpack with him.
From the article in the WaPo
By the time the meeting began after 10 a.m. Ethan had already altered the note, scratching out several parts of it, McDonald said. He attended the meeting with his parents in the counselor’s office with his backpack. McDonald noted that at no point did his parents ask him if he had the gun or check his backpack.
Um, why didn't the counselor ask the parents to open the backpack and search it while all of them watched? Why didn't the school call the police and have the kid escorted out in handcuffs for making threats? Oh yeah, nice white boy in a nice middle-class school. If he had been in a working-class school or a school in a bad neighborhood, his ass would have been in jail.
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Post by k9krap on Dec 3, 2021 22:32:25 GMT -5
Maybe if parents were held responsible more often, they would be more careful with their weapons.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 4, 2021 1:28:34 GMT -5
Those model parents took it on the lam.
John, I agree. Everyone has mental health issues, just like everyone has physical health issues. And we're monstrous about it. That's why I continue to support Giant Meteorite.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 4, 2021 10:05:04 GMT -5
Maybe if parents were held responsible more often, they would be more careful with their weapons raising their children. FIFY |
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Post by bobathon on Dec 5, 2021 8:19:24 GMT -5
Why not both, John?
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 5, 2021 11:31:38 GMT -5
No reason why not. We can even add the liquor cabinet, poisonous chemicals, car keys, and sharp objects if you want. Would the parents not be equally as culpable if their son had driven their car through, say, a crowd of people? Probably not? Why is that?
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Post by bobathon on Dec 5, 2021 18:57:33 GMT -5
Sorry, my bad, using a gun as intended is exactly the same as driving over people in a car. That's why cars are the preferred implement of mass murderers. It's super easy to go around school targeting your enemies with a car.
Clearly they are not parents of the year, but really, that's some diversionary nonsense.
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Post by k9krap on Dec 5, 2021 20:10:32 GMT -5
Actually, I believe there have been instances where teens have run down their bullies.
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Post by bobathon on Dec 6, 2021 2:54:41 GMT -5
Weapon of choice. Portable, easily concealed, readily availalble, simple point and click interface. That's why every few days we read about these car slaughters.
It's a diversion to avoid talking about how guns are being *properly* used in all these cases. A gun is for killing. A car is for transportation. A car is a mediocre at best killing tool, a gun is really really effective killing tool - that's what it's for.
But because it's possible to kill a person with a car, people like bringing in this outrageous but irrelevant comparison. We have licensing, training, insurance, and very visible enforcement about cars. Guns, not so much. No license, no training, no insurance, no registration. "But it's my right."
And then we require additional measures because cars are dangerous when things go wrong (mandated seat belts, airbags, crumple zones, fuel shut off, I'm sure there's more). Guns OTOH get the absolute minimum for regulations - nothing going wrong, they're working as designed.
I expect this will all get lots worse.
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Post by minx on Dec 6, 2021 10:42:37 GMT -5
But John makes a point. Seems like this kid had parents who were pretty lackadaisical in terms of all aspects of parents, and had been that way from birth.
No rules, and no supervision. Other parents didn't want their kids over at their house as they wanted their children to have at least a little supervision.
And when the kid started exhibiting behavioral issues, parents didn't want to be involved - not THEIR kid - if the school couldn't handle it, why should they?
And that seems to be a pattern with these kids - little Johnny has issues and parents don't want to hear about it. And mom or dad think they don't need to secure their guns, or leave the combination to the gun safe where it can be accessed.
So yeah, the parents do have to take responsibility for what happened as well. As a society, we expect parents to have better control over the liquor cabinet and car keys than we do over guns. In addition, this conversation started with a man who deliberately drove a car into a crowd of people at a parade - so people do misuse cars as well.
It's an issue of responsibility - from the parents, from gun dealers, and from the government. I don't see it stopping.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Dec 6, 2021 11:01:13 GMT -5
But John makes a point. Seems like this kid had parents who were pretty lackadaisical in terms of all aspects of parents, and had been that way from birth. No rules, and no supervision. Other parents didn't want their kids over at their house as they wanted their children to have at least a little supervision. And when the kid started exhibiting behavioral issues, parents didn't want to be involved - not THEIR kid - if the school couldn't handle it, why should they? And that seems to be a pattern with these kids - little Johnny has issues and parents don't want to hear about it. And mom or dad think they don't need to secure their guns, or leave the combination to the gun safe where it can be accessed. So yeah, the parents do have to take responsibility for what happened as well. As a society, we expect parents to have better control over the liquor cabinet and car keys than we do over guns. In addition, this conversation started with a man who deliberately drove a car into a crowd of people at a parade - so people do misuse cars as well. It's an issue of responsibility - from the parents, from gun dealers, and from the government. I don't see it stopping. . |
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