First thing

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Do you think it ever occurs to these idiots that they are breaking the law and there are consequences for their actions? Because only an idiot would think that once you have committed a crime and the cops are there for you, it's going to be your lucky day.

apnews.com/article/pregnant-woman-killed-police-shooting-ohio-c012c53ca8d11fbb839d593a724da288

Obviously there are folks that blame her last. Familiar refrain. She here's mine:

SHE shoplifted and got caught. (From a Handicap parking space by the way so that was enough to shoot her)
SHE refused to accept responsibility for breaking the law.
SHE decided no to cooperate with the police.
SHE decided to start that car and put it in drive.,
SHE decided to drive that car toward the officer pointing a gun at her.
SHE is responsible for everything that happened, including leaving her two other children motherless.
Sad. But true.


I feel like the cops maybe escalated a little but goddamit they wouldn't even be there is she wasn't a lawless dumbass. They didn't just show up and start shooting. They gave her ample opportunity to admit to her mistakes, accept responsibility, and surrender peacefully. Instead, she continued her pattern of expremely poor decisions and it cost her her life. The media doesn't see it like that unfortunately and I fear we're going to have another shit show on our hands.

[minx]

John, John, John. Why are you not thinking of the innocent baby here? Those cops murdered an innocent baby!

I do get her family's bewilderment and anguish - she was 'only' shoplifting and didn't deserve to pay with her life. And I'm 100% sure they believe she would have turned herself in, despite trying to drive away. No one wants their kid to be a criminal, let alone be killed by the police.

But yeah - there were so many places here where things could have been de-escalated and she has more than her fair share of responsibility in what happened.

And I have to say that I'm sick and tired of the 'only shoplifting' excuse. Most of these folks aren't taking food to feed their families. The only Giant in Ward 8 of DC has added additional security and is now going to remove all name-brand products from their shelves because of the rate of theft. And where are those products - being sold by shifty people on the metro and elsewhere. And it's not just in DC either.

If we're going to 'Defund the Police' then we need to fund parole officers and hire a LOT more of them. Release non-violent petty criminals on parole with ankle bracelets. Stray too far away or lose signal without calling in and you'll be in the pokey. And find them public service jobs in short-staffed areas. Things like maintaining and repairing equipment in parks, helping to setup or do the teardown at public events - anything to keep them busy and hopefully out of further trouble. And those same opportunities should also be offered to others so we're not in a situation where people are getting a leg up simply because they committed a crime. Pay them minimum wage - they can use part of it to reimburse the business they stole from (and yeah, even if it's wally world, I think they need to make some sort of restitution).

At the same time, larger companies like Giant should be required to have a full security camera system so that if someone steals from them, they have some sort of video evidence.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

It's not murder for a couple of reasons. First being that the mother put her baby in danger quite unnecessarily. Second is that one can't commit murder whilst defending ones own life.

I'm sorry that her family has to suffer for her terrible choices in life but I also wonder if they aren't also to blame on no small part.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

This does bring something into the light for me. Police officers should be trained to not stand in front of occupied vehicles during a stop or other encounters. To me it's sort of a street smart kind of thing but in this type of situation it's more likely to lead to this outcome when the goal should be to make it less likely.

[minx]

Very true - plus it's putting yourself in harm's way unnecessarily. But there should be training on how to shoot out a tire or two if the suspect puts the car in gear to try and immobilize the car.

I feel sad for her family, and especially for her children. But as you noted John, there were so many opportunities for her to have stood down chief among them not putting the car into gear and driving forward.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I was also reading about that Giant in DC. As you mentioned it's the first notable one in the area but by no means new. Stores are closing because of theft and/or robberies. So when these fucktards run out of the store with pockets full of lobster and filet, louie handbags and jordans shoes, there's another one pointing a gun in the cashier's face down the block. So what the big stores are doing is just locking the fug up and rolling out. So thanks to the hood rats, everyone that pays their way and lives honest lives has to travel much further and/or pay a lot more for the things they NEED. There are really no good alternatives as far as businesses are concerned and even harder hit are the small shops since they simply don't do the volume. It's kind of ironic how these little stores get demonized for putting up bullet proof glass at the registers, usually by someone insisting they are "out of touch with the community". How much more in touch can you be than getting shot in the face over $29.00?

Also read about a car jacking over this way over the weekend. SHHHeesh! 2 brothers carjacked a guy and some time after was a police chase down rt3 onto 95 I think. They also found one of the carjackers 18 MONTH OLD baby in the wrecked car! So, yeah if the kid had died would it have been the police's fault for chasing them?

[minx]

I do love the comments on articles that insist that the people in these neighborhoods are all responsible for the crime there because they don't step up and 'police themselves'. Of course if shit goes down in THEIR neighborhood it's because 'bad elements' have moved in, not because THEY aren't keeping up standards. Jeeze.

And yes, a lot of these criminals had shit for parents and no discipline. But there are a lot who had all of that and still didn't turn out well.

It's super hard right now - 'see something, say something' is all well and good, until the something you see attacks you for saying something. People are entitled lunatics right now.
(and yes, I do try to speak out, but there are many times that I truly don't feel safe doing so)

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Well, and then there's this-




I'm not an expert on demographics but I can tell a lot about the people in these neighborhoods and how a lot of shit goes on, goes down, and goes over. Before you jump me in a dark alley, let me just say that I have no doubt that there are plenty of people just trying to do the best they can with what they have, feeding and clothing their children if not by the grace of god, hardworking and honest, whose only crime is being poor. But in the simplest terms this is a shithole. I assume almost all major cities have areas like this and in those cities millions and millions and more millions of dollars are spent on "Programs". How many times have you heard me say "Programs, man...... we need more programs"? You can't tell me that corporate corruption is to blame for and/or the failures of the government to make so few places like this a working model for actual social changes that bring people out of these areas and in fact, seem to me like they draw more in sometimes. But I digress, seldom are profits in solutions. So at some point and as unpopular as it may be with some ideologies, the people in these places are going to have to do some shit for themselves to affect that change. Again not to sell people short as I know there are individuals that spend their lives trying to bring hope to the less fortunate, feed the hungry, house the homeless, and relieve the pain even though most won't be cured. So to summarize, I agree with those that say they need to step up and police themselves, I would add "to the extent possible" which would require more conversation for those residing at ground zero. 

[k9krap]

Is anyone else somewhat in awe of the physical ability of the convicted murderer that escaped prison last weekend?

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I used to be able to do that "crab walk" when I was a teenager/young adult. Had excellent agility, great speed, and decent strength to build on. We did a lot of "burners" and hill climbs as kids in sports and was actually in the best shape of my life as I got to be around 30. Anyway, none of that shit is possible for me now so even while I'm not really all that impressed with the escaped convict I do have to admire his stamina for old times sake.

[minx]

I'm only in partial awe, cause you know that dude had help getting out.

And I hear what you're saying about the slums John. I just think it's hard to 'police yourself' when the result of doing so will probably be a bullet to your head or the head of your kid. So I think a lot of people who are decent people just trying to get by barricade themselves in their homes and pray for a miracle.

At the same time, you can spend the entire government budget on programs, but it won't help until the criminal element is taken off the streets, and kids have more opportunities than joining a gang or becoming a drug dealer or prostitute. And like it or not, at this point I think a huge part of that will be having a large law enforcement presence in the area to help clean out the area so that people can come out from hiding and start making it a better place. I've read way too many stories about people organizing efforts to help people in their area, and connect kids to programs and things to help keep them off the street who are killed a few months or a year later. And of teens or young adults who witness a crime and do point out the perp only to be shot themselves in retaliation.


So I do get the whole 'see something, say nothing' mindset of those people. But when I read these stories, I also think of the people fleeing violence in Central America and how similar the stories are from both groups.

I know we need to do better. At the same time, I don't know how to even start. It seems that those areas were almost purposely designed to keep people in and not allow a way out.