Name this City

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Cape Town?
Mogadishu?
Beirut?
Caracas?

[minx]

Well, it's nowhere here, because I KNOW that the good guys with the guns are out there protecting our cities, right? Right?

I really wish that more people would understand that when you can buy as many guns as you want, this is part (not all) of the result - people go and buy 10 guns, then sell them on the streets.

And closing that loophole won't stop illegal guns, but it will slow the flow at least a tad. But like many other things concerning guns, that horse left the barn long ago, and there's no getting it back.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

The maxhete is wielded in some of those cities. Killing tools are available to humans and they will use them to kill (and a host of other mostly nefarious uses). I firmly belive it's the condition that motivates them that be needing fixed first.

[minx]

Truth - and it's not an easy problem to fix.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

No guns to blame- 6abc.com/philadelphia-pa-looting-center-city-foot-locker/13832625/

[minx]

I think a lot of the 'every man for himself' attitude that the country has today contributes.
And the Good Cops who shut their mouths and let the Bad Apple Cops run wild has finally come back to bite them in the butt.

And the second one is very sad - if the cops had policed themselves across the nation and had policies against officers who violated someone's rights that were enforced, a lot more people would trust them more.
And 'defund the police' shouldn't just be about social workers, but actually getting more officers on the streets who are trained and won't pull a gun the moment they see someone move a toe. So that people feel there's protection out there, and the criminals SEE said protection.

Plus it means beefing up homicide divisions -- why worry about murdering the kid in a drive-by when you know the odds of anyone truly looking into it are slim to none?

So many reforms, so little will or coordination to do anything.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

I do not concur.

Continually placing blame on anything other than the root problem and making excuses for this shit only perpetuates it and I think there's abundant proof at this point to substantiate my claim. Decades upon decades of "programs" has. not. worked. The crime and lawlessness, and disregard for rules, social skills, and life, is only getting worse with every misplaced excuse.

[minx]

I think that the lack of law enforcement presence 100% contributes. If you already have the intent, and know that you can get away with it, why wouldn't you?
And lack of enforcement encourages people to be more brazen.

Speeding is a good example - let's say speed limit is 60.
Lots of cops/speed traps out, I'll probably stick to no more than 63 to be on the safe side.
No cops/speed traps - definitely 70-75.

But in order for it to be a true deterrent, there has to be some teeth attached as well. If my ticket for going 70 is $15, then it's pretty much the cost of doing business. If it's $250, then we're talking slowing down next car trip.

Same for criminals - low level offences without violence? You can go home on an ankle monitor to wait on your trial.
Any violence involved? Sorry, your ass is going to sit in jail till your trial date.

Of course, doing that requires three things that are currently lacking:
1) Enough judges to ensure a speedy trial (or at least bond hearing - it's not uncommon for people to cool their asses in jail for weeks waiting on one)
2) Enough parole officers to ensure that people on ankle monitors are actually monitored and picked up immediately if they go astray.
2) Enough legal aid lawyers to make sure people who can't afford a lawyer get decent representation, and not some guy with a 70 person caseload

I truly believe that we need strong deterrents in place. At the same time, we also need more adults to step up and take responsibility for their kids and themselves too.

And that goes across all racial and class lines. Most successful adults come from parents, family and neighbors who pay attention to them, take an interest in their lives and keep them accountable.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

99% of traffic infractions are not criminal so the analogy is fine but it's apples to oranges. Speeding and looting are non-comparable in this context. Just because there's no armed guard on-site doesn't make it excusable to rob the cheesesteak joint. I think we have established that "did you see how she was dressed" was not an acceptable defense, ever.

Again, I think you took too many paragraphs to get to the heart of the problem but at least you got there. We can reduce the contributing factors only so much. We can only provide so many programs and comprehensive plans. at the end of the day people need to wake the hell up and do right by their families and their neighbors. We need everyone to be contributing members of society instead of a drain on it.

[minx]

As it turns out, this was another smash and grab under the cover of a protest.

People were protesting the acquittal of a police officer accused of shooting someone, and these scumbags took advantage to rob a lot of stores. And of course, they chose the high-end ones like Apple and Lululemon for the most part.

Twill never happen cause people are cheap as shit, but I wonder what would happen if people on the streets refused to buy this stuff on the streets?

Did read an article that said the worst thing to happen to welfare 'reform' was breaking up families so that it was a lot easier to qualify if you weren't married and had a child. Had the result of pushing men away from their responsibilities as fathers, and encouraging women to have babies outside of marriage (after all, why get married if it means you'll lose benefits?).

Easiest reform would be to put in incentives to encourage marriage, with a requirement that one parent either be working, actively looking for work, or in a training program that will lead to work.
Have no idea if it would work, but may be a small step towards having two adults who could keep an eye on the kid and try and instill some sort of decent ethics into them.


Hahahaha! I jest of course.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Did read an article that said the worst thing to happen to welfare 'reform' was breaking up families so that it was a lot easier to qualify if you weren't married and had a child. Had the result of pushing men away from their responsibilities as fathers, and encouraging women to have babies outside of marriage (after all, why get married if it means you'll lose benefits?).


Nope. It's people ducking their responsibilities first and foremost. Has nothing to do with benefits but I will submit to the idea that taking away or even putting stricter limits on those benefits would likely change a lot of attitudes about procreation.

Easiest reform would be to put in incentives to encourage marriage, with a requirement that one parent either be working, actively looking for work, or in a training program that will lead to work.


Yes but. The bottom line is values. Marriage and children are not tax breaks, social service access, or anything that can be taken advantage of.



Back when the shit started hitting the fan for me I had a social services worker suggest that we divorce and she would be able to get this and that benefit-wise. I told her we would live in a cave before we divorced for the purpose of getting health care paid for. That's what I call values, YMMV.

[minx]

Yes, but you were raised in a two-family household where you had an example of what commitment and unity look like.

Now dial it back abut 40 years to when the power-that-be decided that the way to make welfare harder to get was to say that if you were married, you were SOL.
I'm sure a lot of families said that hell would freeze before they split up, but I'm also sure there were families desperate enough to do it - as a man, if your choice is to stay married to your wife and watch your children starve or divorce so she and the kids get benefits, what would you choose? And it's just a paperwork thing - it's not like you're going to have to move out, right?

To me, this is how the 'welfare state' became a perpetual thing. Because once that first generation of men were forced to move out, what was the message delivered to the next generation of women? Don't get married or have the father of your child around, or you'll be on the streets honey!

And whether we like it or not, people do take advantage of things like having more children, or getting those children diagnosed with something that qualifies as a disability so they can get extra money. Which also speaks volumes about how little you get on these programs and how much it takes to keep going on them in many ways.

And I sure as hell got tax breaks for having kids - starting with my allowance for exemptions, then a child care credit so I could work (and depending on where you work, you can set up a tax-free account to pay for child care), and when they got old enough for college, I got another credit for the tuition help I gave them.

So why not 'reward' people who want to give marriage a go and allow them a small benefit? Study after study has shown that married couples tend to have fewer children, and those children gain more stability than their peers who are in a single parent household. I'm not saying that we give folks on welfare a bonus, just that they don't get additional penalities.

[Dave's Not Here Man]

Actually no, I was raised in a single parent household in what would easily be considered low income on a great week. I was raised more like kids today than the model you speak. You would cringe at the physical and ment abuse from dysfunction I suffered and scarred my life.

Not that I am a model for taking all of that and overcoming it but I tried like hell and still trying like hell today to be a person I can look in the mirror. If everyone would try like hell I wouldn't have to type this shit because I know how the odds play out, failures, disappointments, and even desperation can determine many things for you. But everyone, every individual has an obligation to try and be the best person they can be and contribute to society. Tired of excuses for anything less.