|
|
Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 23, 2023 9:55:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by minx on Oct 23, 2023 12:59:37 GMT -5
I did read about this study, but I think it's rather incomplete - the conclusion is accurate, but the rationality (that women are too picky and won't marry unless the man has a good job) is way off.
I'd like to see some more information on single moms. For example
1) How many were married and then divorced after their child was born?
2) How many were living with the father of their child without being married?
3) How many receive any form of child or spousal support from the father of their child?
4) If the mothers were in a committed relationship, who ended said relationship - they or their partner?
Most of the articles I've read about this author's study have an implication that single moms have done this by choice - either they got pregnant without the help of a man (such anonymous sperm donation), or chose not to marry the father of their child.
I do agree that it's far better for a child to be raised in a two-parent household, especially if both parents are involved with that child.
And I agree that for many poorer moms, marrying the baby's father makes no sense. If dad has education or job prospects, and mom doesn't either, what good will it do the child to have them marry?
From what I can see of my kid's and the kid's of my friends, they do want to get married and many of them are more than willing to be with someone who doesn't make as much as they do. I think that part is a total myth and one that incels like to pedal as to why they can't get dates.
But I do think that women are getting choosier about the quality of their man - they want someone who is a good emotional provider. Someone who will be a full partner in the relationship, and be involved. Not someone who expects to be waited on, or intimidated if their wife makes more money than they do. And they want a man who will be all-in on child raising, not someone who looks at watching the kid for an hour as 'babysitting them' for their wife.
So definitely a lot more nuanced.
I'd like to see full access to free birth control, along with making it much easier to obtain.
And I'd like to see classes on child development along with the full costs of raising a child. Too many classes focus on how much time and energy newborns take. Start focusing on some of the other phases, like when your kid is old enough to talk back, ignore your commands or throw full-blown tantrums in the supermarket.
Along with the costs (and lack of availability) of child care, housing (where will that kid sleep when they outgrow a crib?), school supplies, ect.
And have kids make a realistic budget for everything too.
So for dad
You're not married to or living with mom.
What are your plans for staying involved in your child's life?
Who will make the decisions for everyday activities?
How will you handle things if you and the mom disagree on things?
How do you intend to handle finances, and child support for the next 18 years until that child is an adult?
And for mom
What are your plans for having dad stay involved in your child's life?
If dad refuses to be involved, what does it take to terminate his parental rights?
If you intend to make dad pay child support, how will you enforce that if he stops paying?
How will you handle things like missed vistation?
Who will make the ultimate decisions if the two of you disagree?
I know - my usual long windedness. But I truly think that it's not a black and white thing, and a big part of it starts with education. Both inside and outside the house.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 23, 2023 16:07:05 GMT -5
We should all agree without a lot of argument that certain thing go without saying and the data is irrelevant. Like children from upper income households will have more and better opportunities than children from a one parent, low income/poverty level household. As stated, the data in this study is what it is- Data supported baseline of children raised in two parent household vs single parent, in this case mothers, raising children.
Now, like you I think the thing about why they don't want to marry is off the page and not relevant to the baseline. But since it came up, it leaves open the question of why a woman would choose to risk procreation with someone they wouldn't choose as a life and/or parenting partner. If Brittany knows Reggie has two other kids with what they call "baby momma drama", well Brittany, that would be the time to keep it in your pants or exercise birth control to it's full potential. I don't have a problem expanding access to birth control but I take exception to the argument that it's not readily available or affordable even for people with limited resources. Reading the room, knowing the history, and knowing what you want and what you don't, are free and accessible at all times, including the heat of passion. It's just a matter of having accessed that PRIOR to the doinky doinky.
Once upon a time things happened. Promises were made. Mistakes were made. But they weren't made over and over again and people tended to accept their responsibility and keep their word, even if it meant driving her to the clinic or working their asses off to make sure they were providing both financially and emotionally for THEIR child. These days there are so many so-called men that just suck. They do nothing but break promises and shirk responsibility for themselves and their actions.
So back to the study and the rest of the issue, which is pointed mainly at marriage. I've told my kids that marriage is a total commitment. Weddings are nothing but a ceremony and paperwork a formality. If people made that total commitment to each other and their families, the institution marriage is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. So to me, and off the page as far as the study goes, it's more about two parent families. Mothers and fathers are best but nowhere near as impactful as present and devoted parents. Without presence, love, and devotion, education and discipline, patience and understanding you're gonna likely have a shithead no matter who your husband, wife, other, is or how good their job, benefits, or financial stability.
|
|
|
|
Post by minx on Oct 23, 2023 17:12:21 GMT -5
There are a lot of medical deserts in the country. Mostly in the inner city and in very rural areas.
And in order for a woman to obtain any type of hormonal birth control, she needs a doctor's prescription. And because one of the main side effects of the pill is an increased risk of blood clots or stroke, said doctor is most likely to demand that you appear in person for a physical exam so they can cover their ass. Which leaves you with a condom.
And let's face it, we don't always make the best choices in life, especially when we're in our teens and early 20s. I think that's a large part of it too - people think that 'he'll always be there' or 'once we have kids, we'll never be apart' (and yes, I have friends who have kids who thought that way and are now dealing with a kid even though they are no longer with each other).
I do think that in the past, being pregnant out of wedlock was considered to be so shameful that you were either forced to marry, or forced to give your baby up for adoption. So probably a lot of what we're seeing now was more hidden. So women got pregnant out of wedlock at a high state, but weren't allowed to raise their child as a single parent.
I do think that your last paragraph says it all though. What matters is a commitment. Not a marriage, but the commitment of two people to put their differences aside and do what's right for their child.
When I first moved to MD, I rented a room from a super nice guy. He was on his second marriage. Kids from the first came over every other week usually (they were entering HS, so sometimes they had commitments that made staying at their mom's easier). He told me that he and his wife simply married too young and didn't have a lot in common aside from the kids, and it was a mutual split. BUT, they agreed when they divorced that they would always live near each other so their kids would go to the same school district. And they made sure to communicate frequently about the kids. I remember him telling me that one of the kids went to the school nurse and said they were sick and asked to have mom come get them. Mom's response was that she had no problem doing so, but could the nurse ask how the math test little one didn't study for went first?
Kid didn't pull that shit ever again - was shocked that mom somehow KNEW about the test - how could that be???
But he did say that it was a huge commitment on both of their parts. When he met his current wife and things started to get serious, he told her that he couldn't proceed with the relationship unless she agreed and accepted that he wouldn't consider moving until the kids graduated HS. And his wife did the same with her new husband. He said that both of them (former wife and himself) had passed on job opportunities and promotions because they required a move.
I had mad respect for this guy and his wife. Kids were very nice and well-behaved. As you noted, they made a commitment to those children and both participated equally in decision making. Would that more people would be that way. Cause I'm sick of hearing about men who walk out on their family, don't pay a cent of child support, then start a new family. Or women who refuse to allow the father of their children to see them for trivial reasons. It's 100% wrong.
|
|
