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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 26, 2023 14:36:22 GMT -5
May or may not have stopped this guy but one thing for certain they don't work when the people that know you best won't notify someone, like a magistrate. She said he went downhill rapidly but I wonder for how long he showed signs of being homicidal, or if at all, prior to this. If they saw those signs and didn't say anything (which we still don't know, news is still bouncing random body counts) then in my opinion, that's criminal. I know some have said they knew to "stay away" from him but I've known 100 of those guys in my life that never shot anyone let alone went on a killing spree. My own mother would have been more likely to completely flip out than those guys. www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lewiston-maine-shooting-robert-card-what-know-rcna122262
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Post by minx on Oct 26, 2023 17:22:55 GMT -5
The problem is that sometimes the people who know best don't speak up because the law doesn't protect them from that person.
Great that they'll take away the guns in the house from Mr. Abusive, but will it really help if you have no where to go, and now you've pissed off an unstable person? Because in many of these cases, people know they're a nut job, but don't think they'll become a mass shooter.
I think the biggest issue here is that the dude was inpatient for two weeks in September, and there was zero follow-up to make sure he was following a treatment plan, or was stable. And unless you can show that someone is a current threat to themselves or others, police really have their hands tied and can't do much.
And that's a huge, huge issue.
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Post by k9krap on Oct 26, 2023 19:18:41 GMT -5
Yep. After my first husband was hospitalized for over a month and spent a couple weeks at home, he went back to work. But, his coworkers complained - said they didn’t feel safe, so I had to take him home. I understood their discomfort, as the meds (mainly Thorazine) made him look totally insane - static causing his hair to stand on end, wild eyes, cracked dry lips…. So he stayed home and tortured my dogs. 😢 And terrified my mother with weird phone calls.
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Post by minx on Oct 27, 2023 8:56:03 GMT -5
I've read too many stories of women who have gotten the courage to file assault charges against abusive spouses only to see them back on the streets less than 24 hours after their arrest. And now they're REALLY pissed off.
I think the intent of red flags laws was a good one, but in real life, not easy to implement. OTOH, if someone is able to get the guns out of the house of someone who may kill themselves and prevent them from doing so, then it would have been worth it - to me, that's what the law should have been designed for. But we again go down that slippery slope of how is a judge or cop supposed to determine that I may harm myself if I clearly say I'm fine and you're overreacting?
Friend just retired to Maine and doesn't live far from Lewiston. She volunteers at a local animal shelter. Lewiston was on a shelter in place order, but her town and the shelter were not. She wasn't sure if she should go in, but decided to anyway. Said she's glad she did - only one other person there, and they got a lot of busy work done - cleaned kennels, washed, dried and folded several loads of laundry and got all the food and treat bins refilled. When she got home, there was an email saying the shelter was closing until things were cleared by police - animal control would come in twice a day to care for the animals. She's glad that they got things cleaned and organized for them.
In the meantime, guess what the newest speaker of the house said people up there need right now? I'm sure you can guess....
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 27, 2023 9:55:15 GMT -5
Big difference in a "protective" order for domestic violence vs red flag order. Big difference between domestic violence offender and a danger to the public at large. Red Flag was supposed to be for the latter, at least that's what I recall it being billed as. I'm not saying either one is more effective than the other or either carry any weight, but whatever, it's in the public interest to have legal methods to intervene in those exposed as an iminent threat to the public at large first and foremost. Yes, it's extremely nuanced and people might be putting themselves in danger by reporting someone. For instance if the mental health provider were required to report someone as an iminent threat, the person might instantly know where that info came from. Fear, I get it. But that's why we need to change some laws so that once the report is filed, the police show up and confiscate all their firearms and there's no getting them back until you have passed mental evaluations from no less then two legitimate psychiatric professionals. That's what I recall the RF law was supposed to do. It's something rather than nothing and in this case, probably 18 or more lives saved.
...thoughts and slayers?
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Post by minx on Oct 27, 2023 12:56:00 GMT -5
It does sound like his family was a bunch of nut jobs also, so they never would have turned him in.
As for the neighbors - they knew this guy and his family were weirdos, but when you see the dude going to a psych hospital and nothing further happening in terms of the police showing up to disarm anyone, would you file a complaint? Especially if you know that people have been shot for as little as asking the neighbors to turn the music down so their baby can sleep.
Have to be honest, I don't know that I would have called authorities given these circumstances. Just would have stayed away and done my best to avoid them. Because saying anything isn't going to change things, and will just piss them off and make them notice me and mine.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 27, 2023 13:21:16 GMT -5
A couple if things since I'm waiting on the buss all day....
I read somewhere yesterday that [the family] did contact the police about him at some point. Not sure of when that actually occurred. If it was prior to all of this then it appears to have not helped. I've noticed tons of inconsistencies and erroneous reports (like that they had him cornered in his house) in the reporting so not sure there's much that can be believed as fact right now. A story I saw this morning said the family was well known and well respected in that community and that's not the first time I've read that, yet you're getting the opposite information. Go figure.
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Post by minx on Oct 27, 2023 14:29:22 GMT -5
I think he was hospitalized after the family contacted police.
And 100% too much information flying around, and not enough fact checking.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 28, 2023 11:04:07 GMT -5
Every report seems to agree he offed himself based on finding his body last night. Too little too late but at least this didn't go on for any longer than it did.
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Post by k9krap on Oct 28, 2023 16:26:02 GMT -5
I figured he was dead, and it probably happened shortly after the shootings. There was no other option. Coward.
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Post by minx on Oct 30, 2023 12:18:53 GMT -5
How often do these guys actually stick around after their shooting spree? Only two that I can think of offhand - the guy who shot up the synagogue in Pittsburg a few years ago, and the guy responsible for the Parkland HS shooting. Seems like the rest just off themselves.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Oct 30, 2023 12:59:18 GMT -5
The majority do but there have been a fair number that were taken out by LE..
Not many are taken into custody.
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Post by k9krap on Oct 30, 2023 16:25:14 GMT -5
The guy that shot up the Walmart near El Paso is still alive, I believe as well as the shooter outside Buffalo.
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Post by minx on Oct 31, 2023 10:39:16 GMT -5
So for the guy in Maine.
He tried to buy a silencer. First background check (when he ordered it) went through (unclear if that before or after he was in the hospital). When he went to pick it up, he answered 'yes' to the question on the form about bein hospitalized for an in-patient condition and the dealer told him he couldn't go through with the sale. Again unclear if the dealer did a full background check at that point - to me he did his job by rejecting the sale as soon as he saw the form.
Also in the last month before the shooting, there was a state-wide advisory in Maine about this dude saying he had been making threats towards military bases. And his family also reported concerns about him. Local police visited and decided there was no threat.
Tons of warning signs in this case, yet this guy still had his little arsenal.
And some guy was going to shoot up an amusement park in CO, but changed his mind after breaking in after hours and killed himself.
Sigh.
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Post by Dave's Not Here Man on Nov 1, 2023 12:17:04 GMT -5
Tons. The law and the courts failed his victims bigly.
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